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Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by quickstep
2/9/2007  12:31:00 PM
That doesn't answer the question. If I arrive late on my second quick. What timing will I use on my Reverse Turn, The music is playing 1234 in that order. In a bar of 4/4 music we have four beats. You or nobody else can make it five or three..
If a competitor did wish to hold that third step and alter the timing.If this was to be followed by an Open Telemark they would syncopate the Telemark to, two and three, to come back to normal timing.
If they did continued to dance losing one beat they wouldn't get a mark from any judge.
This I think has something to do with it. Harry Smith - Hampshire wrote on Dancesport UK He asked.And I quote.
On the basics and finer points of foot technique. The footwork of the Man's 3rd step of a Foxtrot Feather Step is given as TH. in the technique books. Describe the exact positioning of the moving leg at the moment that the Heel of the supporting leg should touches the floor. I would add to that. Also give me the timing.
To continue. If every fad was to make its way into the technique book it would be chaos to say the least, and you could throw the technique books into the rubbish bin.
Does that make sense to all of you who aspire to be Technique Book rewritters.
Can you imagine writting that third step. As not being on beat 4 or beat 1 but somewhere in between. Show my how you would convey to a student that in a Technique Book.
Re: Feather Step International Style
Posted by Anonymous
2/9/2007  1:52:00 PM
"That doesn't answer the question. If I arrive late on my second quick. What timing will I use on my Reverse Turn, The music is playing 1234 in that order. In a bar of 4/4 music we have four beats. You or nobody else can make it five or three.."

You still are not understanding the dance.

Nobody is trying to make the bar of music any number of beats other than 4.

But what you are missing is that we are not trying to fit each figure into a bar of music. Instead, we are dancing it over a time equivelent to four beats of music, but a time of four beats THAT DOES NOT ALIGN WITH ANY BAR OF MUSIC OR EVEN ANY FOUR NUMBERED BEATS.

The timing of the reverse turn was, in my measurments, the same as the timing of the feather. Which is to say that the first step landed just before beat two, the second step landed on beat three* and the third step landed in between beats four and one.

*By on beat three, I mean that I used this as the reference point. Everyone thinks the first quick should go there, Quickstep and myself included, so I defined it to be on beat three, and used that to establish the relationship between the music and the movement in order to determine where the other two steps fall.

"If a competitor did wish to hold that third step and alter the timing.If this was to be followed by an Open Telemark they would syncopate the Telemark to, two and three, to come back to normal timing."

No - because they already are dancing "normal timing" by being what you consider "late". The fact you are going to have to face up to sooner or later is that this is the accepted way that foxtrot is danced. Perhaps if going into a bunch of quicks in a weave the timing would shift to land those repeated steps on the beats, but not for SQQ figues as this "late" timing is the ACCEPTED WAY TO DANCE SQQ FIGURES.

"Does that make sense to all of you who aspire to be Technique Book rewritters.
Can you imagine writting that third step. As not being on beat 4 or beat 1 but somewhere in between. Show my how you would convey to a student that in a Technique Book."

I don't aspire to rewrite the technique book. This whole subject does not actaully need discussion if it had been left well enough alone. The only reason we have to put a lot of effort into specifying exactly where the third step falls is becasue you felt called to SPREAD ERRONEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT IT. In terms of learning dancing, it would be much better to concentrate on the action, and try to align the first quick with beat three but not align any other footstep - because FOXTROT IS NOT ABOUT FOOT TIMING. Since you unwisely chose to argue for aligning the second quick - a SEVERE ERROR THAT WILL KILL THE NATURE OF FOXTROT - it now becomes necessary to point out PRECISELY WHY YOU ARE WRONG.

It's definitely a case where NOT TALKING ABOUT IT WOULD BE MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN GIVING OUT WRONG INFORMATION. But once wrong information has beeen given out, IT MUST BE SPECIFICALLY CORRECTED.
no subject
Posted by tangotime
7/2/2007  11:18:00 PM
All should remember-- The techn. books are there, purely as a guide . Their purpose for being, was to bring a commonality to teaching.

As scrivener remarked -- there can not be any exact technique ( paraphrase )

in essence, meaning some techn. may change , to suit a circumstance .
He also remarked about f/t- " you can be off the " slows "-- but only a fool would be off the Quicks "
no subject
Posted by Serendipidy
7/3/2007  5:28:00 PM
Tangotime.I'm pretty sure that it was Len who told us to get those two quicks right on the button and let the slows look after themselves. More recently Pat Thomson said . This couple sometimes miss that second quick. They should hit that crotchet right on the black dot.
no subject
Posted by anymouse
7/3/2007  6:58:00 PM
Quickstep, pretending to be "serendipity" wrote:

"Tangotime.I'm pretty sure that it was Len who told us to get those two quicks right on the button and let the slows look after themselves. More recently Pat Thomson said . This couple sometimes miss that second quick. They should hit that crotchet right on the black dot."

Hey quickstep, why are you always inventing new aliases? Could it be that you've destroyed the credibility of your old name so now you start over with "serendipity" ???

Anyway, your advice is wrong as ever on the subject of foxtrot timing:

http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Message_Board/view_messages.asp?MsgID=23818

no subject
Posted by Serendipidy
7/4/2007  8:30:00 PM
So what exactly was Pat Thompson saying when she drew attention to this dancer not getting his second quicks right on the beat. And as Tangotime time when quoting Len Scrivener who said . You can be off the slows, but only a fool would be off the quicks. What screwball answer can you give to that.
Whats in a name said Shakespear. Since one of my friends used my computer my name seems to have been changed. A rose by any other name is still a rose isn't it.
You said the advice is wrong. So please go ahead and tell Pat and Len where they got it wrong.
You might have noticed that some of us do give a reference as to where the information comes from. I for one never write anything without saying where the information came from wether it be a book or a video or a person. You would do well to follow. You can take that as being advice if you like. Lets hear your answer to the people who do get there quicks in time with the music.
no subject
Posted by anymouse
7/4/2007  10:37:00 PM
"So what exactly was Pat Thompson saying when she drew attention to this dancer not getting his second quicks right on the beat."

You never quit being wrong, do you Quickstep - you just hide behind a new alias in the nieve hope that it gives you a new chance. Well it doesn't, you can't hide because you are so obviously yourslef.

As for the above quote, you are obviously misundersanding it, as if it meant what you think it did it would be at odds with what is well known to actually happen, as already established here, over and over and over again:

http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Message_Board/view_messages.asp?MsgID=23818
no subject
Posted by Serendipidy
7/5/2007  7:36:00 PM
On the 06 Foxtrot Professional Final which most of us have access to. Can you see any of the six finalists that were not right on the beat with their quicks. Anonymouse . You will be looking a long long time. Also you haven't a clue who Pat Thompson is have you. If you go to the 75th Blackpool tapes you can listen to her yourself. There you are again I given you a reference to check for yourself. In return I would like to know who exactly told you that you can dance off the beat and compete. Socially you can please yourself, and you obviously do, as well as not counting the beats which you have said you don't. Names please. Just to give you something to pick at. In a Waltz routine I have for years had chasses that have a different timing for each. There is 1 2 and 3. 1 and 2 3. and 1 2 3 and.. To try to go from one to another without counting would produce some degree of difficulty. Which leads me to believe that your dancing must be composed of very basic steps. I would love to see what sort of a mess you would make of a Samba with no count.
no subject
Posted by anymouse
7/5/2007  10:00:00 PM
"Can you see any of the six finalists that were not right on the beat with their quicks."

The plain fact is that none of them were putting both quicks on the beats, because doing so is not how foxtrot is danced. See:

http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Message_Board/view_messages.asp?MsgID=23818

If you want to dispute the issue, you should respond to that, proudly as Quickstep, not keep trying to sneak your tired old arguments in again under a new username.
no subject
Posted by Serendipidy
7/6/2007  3:43:00 PM
I would still like to know who instructed you to not get your quicks in the Foxtrot right on the black dot of the crotchet. (Getting the quick right on the black dot.Those words spoken by Pat Thompson 75th Blackpool tapes)
Where you also taught the same in the Tango and the Quickstep, or is this all your own idea. Instead of giving me a string of numbers to look up, just write here what is there. Or is that too dificult. If I were you I would quite before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you are already doing. Deliberately dancing off the beat. What next.
I finaly looked at the message you refered to. It has absolutely nothing to do with getting the quick on the beat.
I stand by this. Get the quicks on the beats and the slowes will look after themselves. As Len Scriverner said. You can be off the slows. But only a fool would be off the quicks.

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