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Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  2:22:00 PM
Usually the only time even national-champion amateurs would take 3 or more lessons a week is they have temporary access to better coach than their usual one.

You have to keep in mind that there is ZERO difference between the lives and training of these "amateurs" and the professional competitors, which they usually become while changing nothing of their habits or teaching activity (other than be able to take their students to pro/am events)

And when it comes to a competition, you simply can't compare the $100-200 they spend (divided by two) with the price tags of pro/am competition. Even if they fly somewhere that's just adding a small piece of the pro/am price. And half the time their coaches will be present anyway. Sometimes, their greatest actual expense is losing a weekend worth of teaching income.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anon
2/11/2007  3:30:00 PM
I do Pro Am and Amateur. I usually do 2 or 3 lessons a week. My competitions are usually regional or local. My last Pro Am comp. cost $200 for all dances (about 20 or so dances for l minute each dance) with the Pro and the comp. cost about $300 for entry fees and etc. Misc. was about another $150. This is as inexpensive as it gets. The event is on Sunday, so the Pro doesn't miss any lessons.

I know of some lady Pro Ams that take 3 to 4 lessons a day. They use the pro as a teacher and practice partner. They compete nationally and dance many dances. Very expensive.

Interesting about Amateurs not taking over 3 lessons a week. I know some that take 5 from various pros--especially if they do 10 dance. The problem for most Amateurs is quality practice time and using it effectively.
My partners and I had problems on what had been taught us and ending up creating bad habits that needed to be unlearned--even if we taped the lessons.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  3:43:00 PM
The thing to remember is that the more advanced the couple is - the closer they are to being professionals themselves - the more they take care of routine things themselves. In all but a few locations in the world, your actual pro competitors will take a ton of a lessons in a few days, and then none for weeks, because they have no one to study with. Most of the top amateurs do have local coaches, but they can get a lot done in between lessons too.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  4:17:00 PM
I think we are using the word Amatuar widely... Absolutley there is a world of difference between your top Amatuar championship dancers and the AM/AM dancing novice and maybe pre-champ. The top Amatuars are as close to pro as one gets, without earning money by teaching. While your novice dancers go to work everyday, and yes have both the means and the time to take 3 lessons a week.

As a previous poster said, one of the biggest issues for the novice AM is retaining what is taught. With our three lessons a week, the night immediatley after a lesson we are in the studio reinforcing technique or whatever we learned in the lesson, less we loose it. Simply it takes more lessons and repeat of the same principiles for someone at our level than a near pro.

Our costs in comps alone will run us about 2K a comp or 12-15K a year which includes entry fees, travel, hotels. Then usually another 10-12K in lesson costs... Every other year another 5K in costumes. Not a cheap hobby, no matter how you look at it. And yes it is true, this is less, probably much less expensive then the Pro-AM. Still it fustrates me to always read how cheap it is for the AM.... It is not!
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  4:59:00 PM
"Our costs in comps alone will run us about 2K a comp or 12-15K a year which includes entry fees, travel, hotels. Then usually another 10-12K in lesson costs... Every other year another 5K in costumes. Not a cheap hobby, no matter how you look at it. And yes it is true, this is less, probably much less expensive then the Pro-AM. Still it fustrates me to always read how cheap it is for the AM.... It is not!"

You can obviously buy into all the same things the pro/am students do and end up paying nearly as much as they do, but there is just no need to spend that kind of money to compete am/am. You could fly over and compete at Blackpool for the kind of money you are talking about!
And for anything domestic, you should not be spending more than $700 for the two of you, unless you go all the way across the country (2x airfare at $200, hotel $100 incidentals $100 entry fees $100) - and even then, you are still talking about the price for two competitors working out well below the, vs. the price for only one.

There have been times in my life when competitions have actually saved me money because they were cheaper than the pair of lessons we would take on a non-competition weekend.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  8:07:00 PM
Perhaps we live in different parts of the US, and not being close to major airports... There is not once that I was able to secure airfare for 200.00. Our average airfare is about 325 per person, transportation to the hotel, airport parking...., ect

Double the entry fees you have quoted. Most USADance is $125.00 per person. Double the hotel. Flying in requires 2 nights, ect.ect.

I envy you if you can do a comp cheaper than a pair of lessons.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  8:17:00 PM
"Double the entry fees you have quoted. Most USADance is $125.00 per person. Double the hotel. Flying in requires 2 nights, ect.ect."

If you are already paying $325 to fly, try flying to cheaper competitions - the big ones are on the coasts, and priced quite reasonably.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/11/2007  8:23:00 PM
Your point of where we choose to fly is a very valid one. Often we could fly much further for less or at least equal.

Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/12/2007  5:27:00 AM
Taking 2 lessons a week at $100 per lesson is $800 per month. 3 lessons a week costs $1200 per month. This comes out to $9,600 or $14,400 per year.

If you are an amateur this is a major expense, especially if you begin using visiting judges, or you travel to take world class lessons in NY, England, or other locations. If you are really trying to get competitive you could easily spend $25,000 to $35,000 per year or more. Some higher end competitive coachs could charge $200 per hour--depending on if they travel to you or you bear the expense of traveling to them. One needs a sponsor, trust fund, or money to pay for all of this. You need this coaching to even have the judges look at you. Look at how much (millions) the Chinese Pro AM lady was paying for lessons. A guy that was the American Amateur Smooth-Rhythm champion for years had independent money. He would fly in world class coachs from Italy, England or wherever. Bet he spent $75,000 or more a year on coaching.

Still there is no guarantee that you will win anything. Yeah it helps if you have some talent, but you also need lots of money for world class lessons to even throw you hat in the ring. Even someone with some or little talent that has money for years of high quality lessons will eventually become competitive. They will eventually take from all the judges and will become recognized if they are very persistant and hang in there for years. Sometimes it's partner stability, money,hard work and staying power. David and Valentino will probably be the next Am. Smooth champions. They have been competing and paying for these high end lessons for maybe 8 years.
Re: how much do competitions cost?
Posted by Anonymous
2/12/2007  6:56:00 AM
"Taking 2 lessons a week at $100 per lesson is $800 per month. 3 lessons a week costs $1200 per month. This comes out to $9,600 or $14,400 per year."

And you get to divide that by two.

"One needs a sponsor, trust fund, or money to pay for all of this."

No - one needs a job and a willingness to sacrifice other things to achieve your goals. For most amateur succesful competitors today, that job is teaching dance... which really doesn't pay very well!

"Still there is no guarantee that you will win anything."

Exactly. Pouring money down the drain won't solve your problems if you do not have the time, determination, and ability. If you do, there seems ample evidence that you can succede while supporting yourself.

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