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Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by interested
9/16/2010  5:06:00 AM
A secondary thought is that perhaps it is time that 'Classical Sequence' was no longer a 'core subject', with its own Associate, Licentiate & Fellowship qualifications, admitting newcomers to 'Full Member' status. Perhaps a single 'Diploma' (like Sal


Can I ask you to expand on your thinking behind this ?

Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by Telemark
9/16/2010  5:46:00 AM
Taken directly from the IDTA website:

Individuals, who gain a professional dance teaching qualification with the IDTA and are accepted into membership of the Association, may enter their pupils for IDTA examinations at amateur, performer and professional levels in the appropriate branches.

Professional teaching examinations are available in eight core subjects - four of which are termed Ballroom Branch subjects and these are: Ballroom, Latin, Classical Sequence and Freestyle.


A qualification in any of the 'core' branches confers full membership, and the right to enter pupils in ANY style.

With Classical Sequence representing very nearly zero % of the Association's income stream, it seems to have disproportionate representation as a 'core' subject. There is only one Salsa or Argentine Tango Diploma qualification, but Associate, Licentiate & Fellowship levels for a commercially moribund style. this just seems a bit over the top, but the issue is really of no interest to anyone outside the teaching profession.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by interested
9/16/2010  10:30:00 AM
Perhaps you should air your views on this on the Queensland Sequence Forum, as I know you are apt to do - that'll give 'em something to howl about, and it'll give the rest of us some good entertainment.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by Telemark
9/16/2010  2:35:00 PM
I think you overestimate the entertainment value of such exchanges.

I've made a reasoned point, and you are free to agree with me, disagree, or simply go and read something more interesting. Over to you.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by interested
9/16/2010  4:11:00 PM
Well you haven't given any reason yet. That's what I wanted you to expand on. Do you think sequence events are run at a loss at the expense of other branches. Personally, I doubt that that is true, even if the events are fewer in number and less well supported. No-one will run these things at a loss. And, beyond benefiting from sponsored events, I don't really see how the income generated by a branch translates into anything meaningful for its members, in any branch, so, no, I don't think it should be linked to their membership entitlement. Apart from which, most people qualified in sequence (at least to a high level) are qualified in other branches anyway.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by Telemark
9/16/2010  11:47:00 PM
Well you haven't given any reason yet.


I have. I have suggested that for a branch of the Association to have, in its teaching qualification structure, parity with three others (Ballroom / Latin & Freestyle), and yet only generating 0.6% of the Association's revenue (mainly from Medal Tests), is perhaps rather odd.

But, as I suggested, this is not something that really is of concern to anyone outside the memebrship. Certainly, I am not attacking the Modern Sequence world. Perhaps that is a world that could do with its own qualification structure (the IDTA doesn't offer any Modern Sequence qualifications, except for amateur medal tests). The Classical Sequence world is a different world, a very small one, and there is, by and large, NO Classical Sequence presence in the ordinary social dancing scheme.

What does the Associate modular syllabus consist of? Five modules: Waltz Module, The Royal Empress Tango Module, Fylde Waltz Module, Britannia Saunter Module & Premier Two Step Module.

At a guess, only 1-2% of the social dance community could dance ANY of them, and the proportion of sequence dancers who could do better wouldn't be much higher. The small proportion of sequence club leaders and teachers who have any dance qualifications at all are probably qualified in other branches (most typically, Ballroom), and the few that actually hold Classical Sequence qualifications can dance them, but plough a lonely furrow.

Feel free to disagree.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by ME
9/17/2010  2:44:00 AM
What exactly is Classical Sequence Dancing. Is it just a fancy name for Modern Sequence Dancing. Example The UK Foxtrot.
Just a word on Sequence Dancing in all its forms, which includes Australian New Vogue. They go in and out of rhythm, sometimes from the very first step. The UK Foxtrot being one of those which starts on the first step out of rhythm. If we go to New Vogue, the Barclay Blues is another.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by Telemark
9/17/2010  9:14:00 AM
What exactly is Classical Sequence Dancing. Is it just a fancy name for Modern Sequence Dancing.


No, not at all. 'Classical Sequence' = Old Time.

Early in the 1900's the old time form developed with two steps, gavottes, mazurkas and quick waltz. Then came saunters, swings and tangos and these make up the traditional old time form. New Vogue dancing in Australia is similar to the English old time form with open positions. After the second world war came the halcyon days of ballroom dancing and this style started to predominate in what is known as modern sequence dancing by the 1950's. In recent years the old time (or classical) style has virtually disappeared and modern sequence dancing of today is almost entirely based on standard or ballroom dancing and latin styles. New tempos have been introduced lately including Salsa and Mambos.

Unfortunately with the decline in popularity of ballroom dancing so interest in sequence dancing is dropping and many clubs are closing. This style will probably disappear within this generation just like the old time.


The text is from the Home Page of www.sequencedancing.co.uk. The author's suggestion that the style has "virtually disappeared", lends weight to my view that the style is overrepresented, and propbably doesn't merit its retention as a 'core' qualification subject.
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by terence2
9/16/2010  11:39:00 PM
It may interest you to know, that in the UK, Sequence has a much larger following "socially " than does the current B/room divisions..

Classes in seqeunce ( and line dance ) are much more profitable than any other form of class (and because they also strongly support socials ) than any other form.. including Salsa .

This may be part of the reason that it gets the respect that it does.. but.. to back a few decades... Old Time ( as was then called ) also had a huge following and the Modern sequence is purely an extension of that format..

Taking salsa as an integral part of the BR branch, was a "late " comer in terms of acceptance.. it is struggling to compete with the non qualif. people who teach on every street corner.. they even put a Bill into Parl. to get teacher licensing (it went nowhere ).. its nigh impossible to legislate dance, and the same is true in the States .

I do agree, that giving " Full " memb. to someone who has taken a One dance quali. is somewhat insulting to those of us who put in multi yrs of dance and training...

More appropriate would have been a Diploma...
Re: Not in Atlanta
Posted by Telemark
9/17/2010  5:39:00 AM
That's odd: I posted a response to Terence which has not appeared, but the forum's '## messages found' has one more than are visible. Perhaps it will turn up ...

I had written that to the best of my knowledge the 'One Dance' Diplomas don't confer 'Full Membership', but 'Ordinary Membership'. I'm not sure what the difference is, but it may relate to restricted voting rights (?), but certainly restricts members to entering examination candidates only in the branch in which the qualification is held.

Holders of a 'core' qualification can enter candidates for any style. But can anything that accounts for 0.6% of the association's revenue (exam fees, mostly) REALLY be called 'core' within the normal meaning of the word.

And I say again, that I am not attacking sequence dancing. Judging by some of the sequence forums, it is quite clear that they are happy to attack each other, and need no help from me. But 'Classical Sequence' as it is defined by the Association is a very small (almost insignificant) part of the sequence dance world.

While sequence dancing dominates social dancing in the UK (and elsewhere), this is modern sequence. If you see a Fylde Waltz, or any of the others at a general social dance, it is a rarety, and there will only be one or two couples on the floor, whereas if you announce most well known or recent sequences, you'll be crushed under the rush to the floor.

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