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Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by dancelover2012
11/20/2012  1:35:00 AM
You mean that the true Rumba has strong accent on beat 4. But can you let me know it is syncopated (strong beat at 2 and 4) or it is normal with extra beat in 4 (strong beat at 1,3,4)?
Do you have any information about strong beat at 2 in Rumba except Walter Laird book?
Thank in advance
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by terence2
11/22/2012  4:02:00 AM

Why ?.. because if you study "latin " rhythm, you would know that "4" is the stressed note in Cuban Son, which along with Clave, is the foundation for ALL latin rhythms.

The European "ear " has concentrated on the down beat forever ( it seems ) .
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by dancelover2012
11/22/2012  7:45:00 AM
Cuban Son music and Clave is played in 8-beats cycle ( 1, & after 2,4,,6,7) and have no relation to international Rumba played in 4-beat cycle with step on 2,3,4. If you know the history of the int. rumba dance, you will see it is different to Cuban rumba
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by terence2
11/23/2012  3:23:00 AM

The Q was " WHY " the 4 was dominant..

and, I was probably dancing and teaching indigenous ( and BR )latin rhythms, before you were born ( IN the States with latinos )also trained with Laird in the 40s, and, DO you know Intern. Rumbas origins, and its antecedent ? and its NOT danzon.

ALL indigenous latin, in the Rumba genre ( an umbrella term ) is Son and Clave driven.

If you have a dis agreement with this, then may I suggest you take your posit to Salsa Forums, where there has just been a discussion on this very topic,( Son ) by NY latin musicians.
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by dancelover2012
11/23/2012  9:14:00 AM
In 1947 Mr. Pierre visited Havana, modified the Cuban Rumba which is played with 6 or 7 steps in a phrase (2 bars) of 8 beats. This Cuban Rumba is played with the Clave and Conga.. The modified Rumba (now is the int Rumba) is played only 3 steps in a bar of 4 beats. It is very different, can you dance int Rumba with the Clave?
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by O.Z.
11/23/2012  5:11:00 PM
To dance a Rumba we do not have to know what is a Clave or a Son. Leave that for the musicians. Most of them couldn't dance their way out of a paper bag.
In 1947 the Rumba was that square thing which today would be considered a joke
I used to have a tape by Doris Laval who with Pierre helped to standardize Competition Latin American.It only has a fleeting resemblence to todays Latin in particular the Rumba. Who among us can remember when The Rumba was played at 30 BPM. Today it is officially down to 25 BPM.
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by dancelover2012
11/23/2012  6:48:00 PM
Thanks OZ and terrence2, maybe you are old people playing rumba for a long time.
But the question " WHY the beat 4 was dominant" is still unclear.
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by terence2
11/24/2012  12:41:00 AM
Because thats the way the music is written.. the 4 , is stressed on Conga, Base and Tumbao .

It occurs on the 2nd bar ,of a 2 bar phrase. Latinos ,and the prof. teachers in Cuba ,teach that to their students .

There is a discussion ongoing in another site that, ALL latin music in the dance scene is Son based . Its been posited by some very well respected biographers ( latinos )ergo. "4" is the anchor, if you will .

Go to Salsa Forums.. there is a discussion on the Music section that ,has great detail on this subject. Its under" Son " .

To remember.. this rhythm structure ( Clave and Son ) has been around long before the dances we see today, were invented .
Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by terence2
11/24/2012  12:11:00 AM

As per many times, and not unusual in the BR world, your lack of complete info is showing.

Firstly..The current form of Rumba was based upon 2 Americanised dances.. namely Bolero and Mambo . The ORIGINAL break pont in Mambo was taught on FOUR, and Bolero was "3".It changed in 46/47 to "2" .

The break in Mambo was changed to "2", primarily to co-incide with the clave strike on 2 of the 2nd bar ( as salsa is danced today and Son " which is 4 dominant " ).

So.. you only had half of the "story ". Most of the basic foundation steps in Bolero and Intern. style Rumba are identical, and, you can also add WCS as a contributor..

To add a little more confusion to the discussion, Rumba is really an all encompassing term ,and in reality ,is incorrect in its current usage .

Re: Rumba Rhythm
Posted by terence2
11/24/2012  12:29:00 AM
That " square " thing, is the VERY foundation of a Cuban dance genre, namely Danzon, it, and Guaracha, are both forms of indigenous square Rumba styles still danced in Cuba ( and many exiled cubans in the States// also, taught in all the chain schools ).
Intern. latin is about as far removed from its antecednet, as one can get.Its become a caricature .

And Im sure, you , like many others, believe that what you are dancing as " Rumba " is correct.. its a HYBRID . And by the way , I was trained in the UK style of BR and latin.. I only got my eyes opened , after moving to the US.

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