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Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by Anonymous
12/2/2004  11:27:00 PM
There's recently been some debate about the meaning of the term "open turn". As "open" is a word which has been implied to so many different meanings in ballroom we may not be able to come to complete agreement, but I thought perhaps we could try.

Presumably, those turning figures that call themselves open are open turns. So for example, a Quick Open Reverse, and an Open Natural should both qualify, along with their American Smooth identical cousins the Open Left Turn and Open Right Turn.

One poster seems to suggest that the modifier "open" is used to imply that the feet do not close, but rather pass. I had accepted this usage earlier today, but now I think I need to disagree (if that is actually what the poster was arguing in the first place).

There are another class of turns which feature passing footwork, but are very clearly not open turns - these would be the natural and reverse followers heel turns of basic international foxtrot. In contrast to the open natural and open reverse, these are inline figures.

With the contrast to inline as the clue, I think it become clear that the meaning of "open turn" is that it involves or prepares an outside partner action. In the open reverse turn this happens on step three. The open natural prepares for an outside action to follow on step four. If you think of the figure as repeateable by interchaning roles, this is the same as saying that the open natural features outside partner on step one - only we might overlook that as the figure is most often commenced from promenade.

Re: Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by twnkltoz
12/3/2004  12:20:00 PM
"There are another class of turns which feature passing footwork, but are very clearly not open turns - these would be the natural and reverse followers heel turns of basic international foxtrot. In contrast to the open natural and open reverse, these are inline figures."

These patterns do not have passing footwork for the lady...she steps back, brings her feet together for the heel turn, changes weight and steps forward. However, I do believe that at least the majority of open turns involve outside partner. That's just off the top of my head, though.
Re: Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by Anonymous
12/3/2004  12:45:00 PM
About the inline turns of foxtrot:

"These patterns do not have passing footwork for the lady...she steps back, brings her feet together for the heel turn, changes weight and steps forward."

They are still continuity actions, because they feature foot passing rather than closure on three - ie, they meet the critera for being illegal in American bronze, in involve open rather than closed lowering technique.

Also, despite the heel turn, they really are continuous across all three steps - both partners learning to ignore the fact that the lady is incidentally flipping around in the middle is what starts to make the flow of the figure more obvious.
Re: Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by Anonymous
12/3/2004  11:33:00 PM
Don't forget guys that when these names were first coming into being. There was no passing of the feet. In the Quickstep
Reverse Turn it was a Chasse followed by another Chasse. Then somebody came up with the passing of the feet. So it got name the Quick Open Reverse. The Foxtrot had a cross up behind on the Feather and a slow V. Cross in the Reverse. This was all happening around 1922.For those who might be interesed. The Quickstep was first danced in a major competition the Star in the year 1929.
Ref. Victor Silvester Modern Ballroom Dancing.
Re: Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by Anonymous
12/4/2004  8:52:00 PM
Chasse actions in all dances but tango generally end by lowering with the feet apart. You can debate if it's the foot passing between 2 - 3 of a quick open reverse type figure that counts, but I think the fact that you lower with your feet apart and pass them onto the way into the next figure is what is of technically note and challenge. Hence, I consider chasses to be foot passing or continuity actions. In fact of all of quickstep, it's only the waltz-like figures that I would consider to not involve foot passing.

Perhaps mention of the quick open reverse was confusing the issue. In that case, Jonathan pointed out a while back that the running finish is an open natural turn.
Re: Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by Guest
12/30/2004  9:49:00 AM
Chris, is that you?
Re: Meaning of "Open Turn"
Posted by Iluv2Dance
12/31/2004  2:01:00 AM
Hi Anon,(or is it Chris?)
I believe I'm the poster 'iluv2dance', you refer to. I know I have still a lot to learn about dancing but I don't think its a definition of an Open Turn! Mind you, I'm probably the first to bow my head to knowledgeable dance medallists.
Definition of an Open Turn
A turn consisting of 3 steps, where the feet pass continuously throughout all three steps. Example: Feather Finish, Quick Open Reverse Turn, Open Finish.

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