I have a question on the dance frame (in ballroom standard).
I always thought that my left hand (i'm male) should be at the eye level of the shorter of the two in the partnership.
I'm 6ft 1" and my partner is 5ft 11" (both without shoes) and when i look at photos of our dancing, my left arm looks way too high - even though it's at my partner's eye level (which is not a lot lower than mine).
Anyone any comments on this?
On another point, how important is it for me to keep my left upper arm horizontal?
I know it's all about appearance and is thus very subjective (unlike, for example, some detailed elements of footwork, which are to promote good, smooth movement). However, i would welcome some recommendations

Well Sam ,that is a tough question and best answered by a pro. But I can give you some advice. First it has a lot to do with body shapes and heights. The hold a part of the frame is a lot more important than just looking good. The Lady depends on it to acheive much of what she has to acomplish in her dancing,she does get most of the lead from the mans body,but the position of her top line is important for her to maintain her balance over her own feet and to be able to move freely without being impeded by the man. It's best to start by swinging the elbows forward and up ending just lower than the shoulders ,being not pushed back but slightly rounded. There should be a nateral curve from the neck to the elbow. The position of the forarm will depend on how lean the couple are,the couples body should feel that only their clothes are touching. The mans right hand holding her under the armpit (modern way) the hold should should be light. The space between your right hand and right breast belongs to the Lady as does your right hand. The Lady will expext the man's frame to be posative and the right hand to give her suport when she needs it,as in pivots and lines. The hand will breath in order for her to dance the lines to full extention. The weight of the Lady's left arm must not rest on the man's arm ,she only places it there lightly . Your left forarm then must be held in a position that is comfortable for the lady while still looking good, ussuming that the Lady's frame is correct and that her head weight is balanced over her left heal. This is only a small part of the hold ,I will leave the rest to Annon who I think is a Coach. I hope this is of some help.

Many thanks for this droge. I should perhaps explain that we do have a regular coach, but because of an injury, we haven't been going for a while, and i've been working on, and thinking about, a few things on my own - hence this posting. In case our coach is watching(!!!) we will be taking this up with her as soon as we return.
My question about the arms being horizontal is important to me. That last few degrees to the horizontal is giving me pain ("impingement syndrome")and i'm trying to put off the need for an op.

If your arms are extending the natural slope of your neck to shoulder, that is plenty high enough. And even a little below that is okay for most purposes - ut's much more important that your elbows be be equal in height and unstressed than that they match the almost awkward broomstick through the tailsuit look of the IDSF kids.

Phil. I have the same problem,we are the same heigt and weight and when my wife looses her balance her whole weight goes onto my left arm and it hurts right in the muscle,so I make sure she carries her own weight over her own feet. A good test for this is to try and dance a few basic steps holding the hands behind the back while keeping light contact with the body,not an easy thing to do. Another is to start off with the hands behind the back going into a feather step or natural turn in waltz and then as you rise bring the hands into dance position with an altra light hold. In practice or at a dance when ever I feel tension in my upper body we drop our hands to waist leval. There is no need to keep them up just to look good unless you are in a competition and even then I will drop them for a second if the floor is crowded and I don't think the judges can see me. I would not do this in the final round when there are only 5 or six couples. The point is never dance with the arms up when there is tension in the upper body, of course for begginers they have to learn the difference between tension and tone.

Dear cdrodge , I am quite interesting in reading your post . What do you suggest to learn the tension and tone in upper body to the novice ? ( lady part .)Thank you very much.

cdroge. One reason that the lady bears her weight down on the man's left arm is simply not using the feet and ankles correctly, if at all. Just as a reminder the whole of the foot must be used from the heel right through to the toe. If going backwards toe to heel. Which then brings up another point.To do any of this the lady must know the timing. It's amazing how many ladies think that they have no need to count.A couple I know who have danced for years and are having lessons. The lady said to me that she doesn't need to count. "I just feel the music ", she said. I had to be honest and say maybe that's why you can't keep time, it appear to me that your partner is having to drag you onto a forward step, (now you are both chasing the beat).And lituraly push you onto a backward step.

Phil, Check to see that your palms are facing each other on your initial setup. Any turning of the left palm to the front can cause trouble. If you have any recent tapes you may notice also that the thumb is protruding upwards out of the hand, and that the ladies palm is flat on the mans, no gap. Some ladies also matches the mans thumb. The ladies wrist is no longer straight. That disapeared a long time ago. The right arm for the lady is much straighter than in the past. This allows the lady to be much farther to her left and into the man's arm. It's all there if you know what to look for.

Hi Onlooker
I'm aware of the thumbs, and ladies' position thing after a lecture by Stephen Hillier, where he explained the need for it. We will be working on this, which will be a slight change from our setup in the past. I'm not sure this will help my shoulder greatly though. I had noticed the straight ladies right arm with a lot of dancers, and i guess this is an inevitable consequence of the lady being further to her left.
In response to yichen who asked about how to get good toned, yet relaxed shoulders (isn't this something we all want??)the best advice i can offer (though bear in mind i'm a man) is the advice offered by my physio, and which i just yeterday found buried on this site somewhere - that is to visualise separating your rib cage from your hips. If you stand up and try to pull your ribs up and away from your hips, you will stand much taller and more erect, and you will also find that it's much harder to hunch your shoulders. This is a great starting point. Andominal exercises are a good idea too. But i am finding that the only way to really keep my shoulders relaxed and keep good upper body tone is to practise very short segments of step sequences in an aerobic studio (the local gym) in front of the mirrors, on my own and without any music. This is slowly building a habit and replacing the old habit i had. It will take time, but i think i'm getting there. Breaking old habits takes a long time.

It's not the lady being well offset that causes the error her of right arm being straight, rather it's the man's left hand being too far out. He should keep his elbow quite bent: "big" is having your heads seperated and close to your own left hand, "small" is having your hand way out there on its own with your heads close together.