Well put.

Don. Most competitive dancers at the higher leval will only count the beats at the beggining of the dance and then dance to the rhythm, you can always tell when a couple goes around counting the beat all the time,they just don't seem musical. Can you imagine the Hilton"s doing a demo counting the beat. I dance the foxtrot on the 2cd beat and I can tell you it's much easier to dance it to the rhythm than to the beat, providing you get the right kind of music to dance to, which is not to often in the U.S.

cdroge. Music. you hit on a good point there. Not all the tunes on a disk, even though the orchestra might be one of the tops are suitable to dance to. Michael Barr said in a competition last year which was televised. He critised the selection for the Waltz and said it didn't belong in a competition. One of the finalists stood still for about ten bars of music before dancing. None started untill well into the music , that's not including the intro. So why doesn't the controlling body give a list of suitable recordings each month year or whatever, and not leave it to the music presenter. There would still be hundreds to choose from. One adjudicator told me that in a juvenile competition . It was a Quickstep. That he was unable to count the beats. He added that if he was unable to, then what chance had thoes on the floor. It was that bad. Here's one for you. Try dancing to a song sung by Nat King Cole played as a Waltz called Fascination. It's used here regularly.Nice song, but towards the middle it gets a little. tricky. If your not counting your in trouble. Incidently I have a tape on which Richard Gleave said that in practice, and training and in a comp. They counted a dozon or so bars. In training they both counted aloud and split the three beats into six. No I don't think that in any dance I am not aware of where I am in relation to the music. I have been taught to be aware of the beats at all times, especially a vocal.

With fascination you have to ignore the melody and listen for the "ding ding" on 2 and 3 in the rhythm section.

Don. I like dancing to Nat King Cole"s Fascination, I have no problem dancing it on time, I don't normally count the beats because I can hear the rise and fall in the music and move my body to it. This is even more so in the foxtrot, I can here and feel that lovely forward and and upward swing on the 234, if I started counting every beat I would soon go off time in the foxtrot. Beginers need a strong beat to dance to, but as you advance your choice of music changes. Take for example the Waltz, The Little Pianist, a lovely piece of music to dance to, but some dancers may have a problem staying on time. I have that vidio of Gleave, he does not count the whole and have beats to stay on time, his reason for counting that way is to ensure that he is using all of the music at it's fullest and to dance a clear foot and body position. All begginers should count it that way to get the proper rise and fall. I never count the waltz as 123. Talking of counting, our first coach had us counting it as one two and, we were staying up to long she wanted us to lower quicker, a lesson we had with Steven Cullop he said to count it as one three, he was trying to get us to dance a long two.

cdroge. How do you feel about not counting the beats in the Rumba. I have a move where my steps are entirely different to my partner. I am standing still in a pressline sideways to my partner. I have to reach across with my right hand which comes from way behind and grasp her hand on the count of two. She will have spun on 4 1, and hopefully, if she is counting, will extend her arm for me to grasp inviting me to pull her in. And so it goes on . It actually gets even more trickey after that. But to get back to modern. How do I become aware that I am out of rhythm with the music in for instance in the Quickstep after a Quarter Turn. Progressive Chasse. and a Lockstep if I am not counting the beats. In this case I would do a double lock to bring it back. Or as John Wood said Just dance on wrong like the other competitors in time, but out of rhythm.

For quickstep, don't count the beats, hear the cadence of the music - the pattern of development and resulotion, and then match that. It's not about where you are now, in relation to the music, it's about where you are going in relation to where the music is going, so that you will meet at the same place.

Annon. I was so impresed with your answer that I saved it to file. I think that is the way I hear and dance to the music but, I will concentrate more and put your information into effect. It is information like this that inspires one two dance at a higher leval. I have never studied music perhaps I should. Thanks Doug

That said, there is a role for counting: if you are trying to execute a group of standardized figures for exam or restricted competition, at some point you want to make sure you are dancing each one of them in approximately the specified amount of time, and not simply inventing your own variation that fits the music perfectly, but by departing from the standard timings. Being able to make something fit is a great dance skipp, but part of understanding the standard figures includes understanding the implications of their standard timings.

Don. I still have to count the beats sometime in the Rhumba depending on the music to make sure I dance it on the second beat. The key here to me is dancing a good hip action on one, so I feel and stay in time by dancing the hip action to the rhythm. Once I am into the rhythm I dont have to count. Of course,when learning a new variation with tricky hand hold you have to count untill it becomes second nature. The quickstep rhythm to me is like the cha cha,you can hear the two quicks just like you can hear the 4& in the cha cha. As you you are up on the quicks I don't see the problem. I must be missing something .