Yes and yes.......Owen

Not really, a well executed open reverse turn only makes 3/8 turn on each half, so two will not both travel down LOD.

To make 1/2 turn without distortion, you'd need to use a viennese cross action or add an extra step.

If you had your answer, why'd you ask the question?

Also- are the "rules" for this turn any different for Int'l vs American style? Might the American style "overturn" from 3/8 to a full 1/2 turn?

I ask because I dance American style, and I'm curious.


Jerry

Are English bodies the same as American bodies?

Some of you are humorous. English bodies are pretty much the same [although not every international style dancer is English. I never felt a Russian.]
Because international style is stricter about staying in closed dance position, I was wondering if am. style is more accepting of overturning.
In all honesty, I ask because I am an instructor {which doesn't mean I think I know it all} and when students learn choreography from videos or whatever, I want to know if my opinion is valid. I don't think there are absolute right or wrongs, even though one responder said "yes and yes", and another said,
"not without distortion". I'm just looking for confirmation. I usually feel as if I'am being shoved or clotheslined when a leader overturns, which I don't find comfortable or attractive.
Thank you for your replies.

If you are dancing American style seperated - say both dancing the same thing in parallel - you have some freedom to use amounts of turn that would "shove or clothesline" a partner in hold with you.

But if you are dancing together only more seperated, you may be even more restricted in your amounts of turn as the inside / outside of turn travel difference for a spaced out hold can be quite severe. But the greater spacing reduces the need for CBMP on steps that would require it in closed hold, so some additional variations become possible.

Given the close heritage with interinational style, it may also be important to avoid variations that are close enough to look like standard, but varied just enough to make them look like bad student standard - if you're going to do something not possible in closed hold, it may be better to do something clearly different, while if you are going to do something insipired by a closed hold figure, it may be best to do it in a way that respects the details of the original.

You can do successive half turns as open passing actions, but people rarely do. It's actually fairly difficult to execute properly, and there are better options such as cross turns, syncopated double crosses, and heel-turn variety open reverses (Yes... even the man can dance a heel turn on 456, staying in-line).

However, as to whether it's possible to dance an open half-turn or not, the answer is "yes". Very often in Foxtrot, you'll see someone dancing a Feather Finish with a half turn, commencing with man backing DC out of a corner and following with a figure that travels toward DC (facing).

The trick to properly executing a half-turn passing reverse (or Feather Finish) is to essentially "over-cook" the CBM by diverting the direction of travel by 1/8 or more. Normally CBM curves slightly off-track on a reverse turn anyway, so to achieve more turn, you just need to divert the track more. So for example, if you commence facing LOD, your first step actually curves -- not just the alignment of the body, but the actual direction of travel -- so that it finishes moving toward DC. Then the rotation for the remainder of the turn is the same -- 3/8.

Once you've established your direction after taking the first step, you cannot turn more than 3/8 between the end of 1 and the end of 3 without stepping off-track and/or rotating out of position. So it's important to create any additional rotation very early on.

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson
www.ballroomdancers.com

Yes, I understand about the feather finish. But I also feel shoved out of alignment on step one. In order to divert the track, would you being using more CBM}
Thanks for your input and sorry for the confusion.
Yours truly,
Ann

Whatever movement you may be dancing, if you're feeling "shoved", chances are you're being shoved.

If the partnership is well-connected, there should be no need for him to use his arms to manipulate you into a position or a direction. In closed position ballroom, the man leads simply by doing, not by attempting to cause his partner to do something. Especially in social dancing where body contact is scarce, those who think of leading as being something one does to one's partner, rather than the natural result of doing it oneself, will tend to manipulate with unnecessary use of arms and hands (even if not intentionally).

CBM in any amount should be easy to feel and respond to, so thre shouldn't need to be a feeling of a shove.

Regards,
Jonathan

The ease of responding to CBM is in large part related to its proper sequence in the various body parts. For a natural turn, the top leads the rotation and the hips follow, but for a reverse turn the offset would mean this sort of action would shove the lady off her feet. So in a reverse turn, the CBM shows up in the hips first, with the top following it.

That's the leader's problem. The follower's problem is remembering to respond CBM (and simple linear motion) by moving the body over the standing foot by rolling the weight through that foot, even before the feet being to seperate. This is especially true if the novel "overcooked" CBM is to be applied, since the direction of the step won't even be evident until the CBM is underway - put the foot out too soon, and you'd have to ronde it to the new alignment.