Dear adcdefg, you mention phrasing. I am keen to understand foxtrot timing. I have just changed from "counting" to the q and s concept. For the first time I am feeling more style however I would like to be able to work out the q and s pattern myself. My teacher has fixed my wrong interpretation of the q and s and we have discussed some typical q and s dance steps. Does phrasing refer to getting the q and s sequence to fit with the music. I too have been told that the feather is danced on the 3 and 4 however start with a balancing step or use a change of direct step which is s,s,s,q,q would mean the first q is on 7 and 8. I do not want to confuse anyone and I do not presume I am right, hence advice on "timing" and phrasing is appreciated.

Sandra.You appear to be on the right track. It can come as a bit of a shock to have it pointed out that after a couple of years of dancing there is something more that has been missed. In our studio if we were to start with the Feather Step. The teacher will pick up the beat and count 5 6 7 8. The preperation step has one beat and that is on eight. Which gives is 1 2 on the man's right foot. Heres a little brain teaser. In the Modern Waltz nobody should be out of rhythm or if you like out of time in the Waltz. We are talking phrasing now. Count a Change Step .Spin Turn. Reverse Turn . Whisk. and a Progressive Chasse. Don't stop but repeat. At the end of the second group you are out of phrase . If you were to repeat again, not that you would, it gets even worse. You will find yourself going into you Natural Spin Turn on bar seven and not bar one. Somebody will say. "Does it matter". Answer what is the music saying. All of the above is meant as a excercise in counting and phrasing, and how easy it is to get out of click with the music. Just a word about Samba. If you have a sixteen bar routine and you decide to leave a couple of steps out, say two bars that you are not too keen on. You must put back into your routine two bars to take their place. Otherwise you will be left with a fourteen bar routine which will not fit the music.
Happy counting. If you understand all of this you will be way in front of most of your friends.

Don. At a Ballroom Dancers' Federation lecture, at Blackpool, Richard Gleave told those present that an upcoming ballroom couple had lessons
with a well known Dutch coach who kept stopping the couple in the Slow Foxtrot to say that they were out of phase with the music. It became so bad that the gent almost became ill. It
was only when he changed to Richard that this problem was just someone's interpretation of the music and it's not wrong to start a Feather on beats 3 and 4! Quoting the Alex Moore
book (page 183) he then goes on to write: Amalgamations. 'Dance a Reverse Turn and then a Change of Direction and follow with a Feather Step. Was Alex wrong?

Puzzled. No Alex Moore wasn't wrong at that time. But todays top dancers are very aware of being out of rhythm. Phrasing is something different, and that is good music for ballroom, and this includes Latin, will be eight bar phrased. Even Jive is being counted in groups of eights. If anybody thinks that is not too hard they should should try it. Getting back to the Foxtrot. It doesn't look good if you see a couple on the fourth step of a Reverse turn, the man stepping back with the RF on the beats three four, then the Feather Finish into the Three Step on the wrong beats.I think this is why we see some passing steps on the Reverse Turn, omitting the ladies classic Heel Turn. Which could if we have strayed off the correct beat bring us back again. We have to be aware of dancing in rhythm and also in phrase. If you were judging and there was nothing between two couples. Should n't the pair on the correct beat be selected ?

Don. Thanks for your reply. The Samba and Paso Doble are written in 8 or 16 bars phrases, so it will be correct to phrase the choreography to this. The beauty of the English style is it got away from sequence dancing in the 30's which some so called coaches are now teaching. Talking to my mentor about this, he remarked your Waltz example, upto and including the Chasse, was danced by Bob Burgess when they were placed second in the Waltz in the British Open at Blackpool.

Puzzled. Maybe I didn't point out clearly enough. Ballroom Dancing has risen to greater heights since the 50's and there abouts. I was a regular at Bob Burgesses studio at the Olympic Ballroom Kensington . I attended many of his teaching sessions and others. I cannot recall any mention of phrasing ever. It is my belief that maybe the orchestras of today are playing music with more emphases on certain bars than they did years ago. And so the dancers. As John Wood says on his tape. There should be an awarness of the music. Or you go on, just like everybody else around you, dancing in time, but out of rhythm.

Puzzled. If you can point me in the direction of any dance music that is not eight bar phrased , let me know. I listened to a Elvis disk the other day. Yes you've guessed it eight bar, phrased through out.

Don. If I did would it make any difference? Take my opening Slow Foxtrot routine. I dance a Feather into a Fallaway Reverse Slip Pivot. Timing S.Q.Q.S.Q.Q.S. That means I enter a new figure on beats 3.4. of a measure. This is acceptable! I'll say again. English style is not sequence dancing. If you want to give yourself an headache because a coach feels your dance should be phrased, then do so.

A dance does not have to be fixed sequence to be phrased any more than a jazz soloist needs to be reading music to follow changes.

You have a choice in the FRSP between several timings. Picking one arbitrarily is *not* acceptable. Picking one to accomplish an artisitc purpose is. Ideally that purpose would include consideration of the role of the step within the musical phrase, but there are many things a standard dancer has to worry about and not all will be satisfied all of the time.