Thanks for the input, but no one answered my question. Are American style top competitors now adopting the thumbs up hand hold?
I find it awkward to dance from open to closed position without the use of my thumb. I use my thumb as part of the connection. Yes, I know not to grip, grab, pull etc.
I could go to more comps and check it out myself, but I thought surely someone out there would know.
Thanks

Annie,
My random sampling of the handholds seem to indicate thumbs up are a little less in use in American style--but not by much. Hardly authoritative nor indepth, since I observed it in only a couple of comps.

Z

Almen,
I wasn't speaking from the man's point of view alone--I was talking about both the gent and lady--and how the approach to the hand hold should be.

There are certain immutable rules that provide both function and aesthetics to movement--REGARDLESS of one's stature in relation to a partner. That is to say, by conforming to certain structural rules, one could reasonably create a well-functioning and aesthetically pleasing silhouette.

The SIN, in my opinion, is blindly copying an established form (such as a specific way of holding a partner's hand--lady OR gent) without really understanding WHY it must be done this or that way.
And by extension, how it would affect one's posture, silhouette, and movement.


Z

The purpose of parallel thumbs is actually to bring the man's thumb more into play in creating a connection, not less. The lady's connection is more through her middle finger.

"I was suggesting that focusing on the handhold ALONE doesn't do any good--because it doesn't ground the form (the shaping of the hands) in any mechanical function.
IMO it is bad practice because it is pure FORM for FORM's sake."

Focusing on the handhold alone is probably the most important and most usefull element of connection. Much of the rest is purely aesthetic - but get the hands connected, really feel each other's hands, and you will dance with joint intent even when your bodies temporarily loose position and coordination - if you still really have each other's hands you will be back to right in no time.

But I don't expect anyone to believe this until they have experienced what a real hand connection can do.

abcdefg. There is a saying that the proof is in the pudding. Watch to see if the lady is keeping a good shoulder line. Among other thing a lifting of the left shoulder. Then the lady who knows this is not desirable and doesn't lift will find her right arm behind the line of her body. All caused by the position of the man's left hand. Now ladies it's up to you. don't stand there saying nothing to your partner, or and your coach if you feel that something is not right. One thing you can easily check is in the ballroom hold, bend the left arm, for the man from the elbow inwards. Is it smack in the middle, between you. You could stop anywhere in you routine and check that it is where it should be. Might get a few surprises. If Annie is reading. I know nothing about the American Style. But i would be carefull about introducing anything that is not widely known. It would only take one judge to not know what they are looking at. Thumbs up.

Ideal arm positions have a lot to recommend them, but the actual connection is through the hands independent of the position of the arms. It does not good to lock the arms in the perfect position if there is no "live" connection through the hands to the partner. But if the hands are joined with positive energy, the frame can float lightly without stress and tolerate temporary distortions without the dancers becoming seperated in their intent. This is so much more effective than a locked frame and "dead" hands.

Phil . For years I had it drilled into me that my left arm was just a decoration, and not to use it for leading. Then I got a John Wood tape on which he said Gentlmen in a turn don't be stingy with with you left hand. I think with thumbs up the lady might be able to read from the pressure what is expected of her. I later learnt that I have to put the lady where I want her without appearing to do so. It was added that the lady is not supposed to be a mind reader. I was also told by this person, currently ranked in the top twenty, that if they are feeling really good they will do certain moves that they will not do if they feel a bit out of it. So a good lead is a must to be able to change a routine or part of. I suppose we have all tried to danced our routine like a sequence dance at some time or other, with our partners complaining. What happened to the Tele Spin or something.

Beginners get the advice not to lead with the hand because of the tendancy to just use their hands to move their partner around. But more advanced dancers need to be reminded that it actually is the hands that lead. The issue is that the movement of the hands is a result of the action of the body, not an action of the arms - the arms actually do very little, they are very relaxed in their presented position with the muscles feeling almost not engaged at all - it's as if the hands are connected to the body instead by some mystical force.

abcdefg. This becomes very intriguing the further it goes. When you think about it in a Natural Turn the hand is foremost to the body therefore must go first if it is to remain in its coprrect position. By trying to do the turn through the body only could result in the lose of position of the left hand. Just as a bit of additional information I was told by a first class couple that he will send a bit of information through a signal between the two thumbs to his partner on what he wants her to do next. Just one of the tricks of the trade.