hi,Alec

I'm sorry to know lately about your questions. I would say that always one counting is prepairation.It means not counted.Aspecially in Rumba, one prepairation,two,three,four and one,this one is settle (they call)actually is a resting.But when you count and (for turning).You'll be confused better check with your D.I. I''v been dancing for more than 5 years. My name is thet. My mail is happythet@ganja.ac ,good luck. bye'.

Recently I watched a wonderful lecture of Dmitrii Timokhin on musicality in cha-cha-cha. BTW he and Anna Bezikova were students of Donnie Burns...
And Dmitrii used all known variants of cha-cha-cha count in the lecture like
[1,2,3,4&] , [2,3,4&1] , [2,3,cha-cha-cha] , [quick-quick-slow].
It depended which thing he specifically tried to emphasized in movement then he switched to more 'suitable' variant.
Igor

I liked your answer "Dronak".......and everyone elses has been interesting. I really love this web site.
I teach as you say "Dronak", and I have thought about starting with the 4&1 to make it different for the higher grades in the school.
I have found that in sequence dancing ( do you have it in other countries ? )they start the forward step ( rock ) on number one, which is a habit very hard to break.......people come to me wanting to learn cha and rumba but only knowing sequence and being totaly confused by the "off beat" teachings of the modern international dances. These people are usually in their 60's so sometimes impossible for them to take on board.
Julie x

In Basic Rhumba. 41 is danced to the side ,23 is danced forward or backward. Dancing to the side 4 is part weight,the hip then slides over for full weight on 1. Count as 234,hip. Start to the side on one then step forward or backward on two.

Hi everyone, first of all my English is very limitated, however I'll try to make mysefl as clear as possible.

By any meaning I'm going to say that the dance teatchers are wrong, is just that I'm reading things here that are absolutelly wrong and I'll try to help you out. First of all is pretty unussual for a person born let said in russian to dance a good Cha Cha Cha, it could be do... I have the Cha Cha Cha, Mambo, Guaguanco, Salsa (or Son) etc on my blood, I didn't have to go to any school to learn it, but I can't dance the Polka with the spirit they dance because is not on my genes.

Ok, here we go, Cha Cha Cha and Mambo are two different things, if Enrique Jorrin and Perez Prado, the creators of those rhitms respectivelly leasten to that epifany they would came back from their graves ! LOL.

Cha Cha Cha is dance like that:

It ussually have an introduction, you don't do nothing except take your positions with your partners, in a couple of seconds you will hear and feel the Cha Cha Cha part. Then you do this, lets said this is the song:

"Cha Cha Cha que rico Cha Cha Cha"

One, Two, Three ==== One-Two === One, Two, Three === One-Two. One, Two Three===One-Two===One, Two, Three==One Two.

Every Cha, Cha, Cha sound or letter is one number, One, Two, Three. The One-Two is what you have to do in order to wait for the netx Cha Cha Cha.

Uff, this is not easy and I don't even know if you know about the song I'm talking about.

Mambo is different:

Mambo, que rico Mambo, Mambo, que rico es es es....

Is ussually in One-Two steps all the time. But I'll rather come back later.

Dirty Dance is a cheesy idea about what Salsa, Cha Cha Cha and Mambo really is. If you want to dance a real Latin music don't pay attention to that movie at all !!!!.

Keep in mind that I'm not a dance teatcher, I'm counting as it is in real live.

Nice to be here, my passion is Dance.
Hope you accept me. Adios.

Cuban Girl. You lost me there a little. International Cha Cha. The time signature is 4/4. There is a musical accent on the first beat of each bar. In the Cha Cha Chasse to the left there are three steps. Left Right Left which we call 4 and 1. The beat value is 1/2. 1/2. 1. When we step foreward or back it will be on the beat of two.This is where it gets tricky. After stepping foreward on step one (that is beat two)
Replace weight on step two ( that is beat three. Now the Chasse ( Which is Four and one. Ready to step back on two with the music and repeat the other way. The ladies step are the exact opposite to the man's. Advice here. Never try to learn from a book. Always go to a teacher who teaches the style you wish to learn. Otherwise you will most likely finish with bent knees. On step one (which is beat two ) Have the leg in front with the knee as straight as is possible. On the back half the same, knee locked straight, toe in contact with the floor and the heel off , which produces a beautiful leg line. For more go to the vidio clip on this site . Pick Cha cha and then go to a New York. Its all there.

Don, now I'm the one that is lost LOL. :) As I said I'm not into counting steps and I have no theory, but a lot of practice, real life, real parties, I was once in a Afrocuban Dance Group and we even did some tournaments, that's all. I'm not quite sure what you call international cha cha cha since I only know one and only Cha Cha Cha, the original and the only one, the one that Enrique Jorrin invented with the Orquesta America, then he found the Orquesta Aragon. Every Cha Cha Cha, even played in Japan have the same beat. In fact the rithm is mark by those words, Cha Cha Cha, even if the song doesn't have it on the lyrics you can feel the Cha Cha Cha beat on the music, on your blood.
For ex. I can't tell you if "tecnically" Cha Cha Cha start in number two, for some teatchers maybe, for the ones I grew up with is One-Two-Cha-Cha-Cha. I keep one it because I don't even count but if you speak with any god latin dancer it would tell you that it is count as I'm saying, or what is the same Cha Cha Cha One Two bis... the hip motion is resulting from the alternate bending and straightening of the knees, a good Cha Cha Cha is danced side to side not forward and back, is a very flirtatious dance, kind of catch-me-if-you-can atmosphere. ;) The song La Engañadora was the first Cha Cha Cha ever played and still alive, I recommend it to you, you can find it everywhere, in Amazon for sure. Look for Enrique Jorrin or "La Engañadora" and you will experience the pure Cha Cha Cha. This is a MIDI, the cheasiest version you can hear but to give you an idea, the original song is beautifull and slowliest.

I'm gonna put here some MIDIS of classics, keep in mind that MIDIS MIDIS are, not even close to the original song.

Cha Cha Cha

"La engañadora":

http://members.fortunecity.com/ajsmidi/alpcond/alpha_05/midi/prado.mid

"El Bodeguero":

http://members.tripod.com/~lacubanaza/bodeguero.mid


Mambo:

http://members.tripod.com/~lacubanaza/mambo1.mid

Bolero:

"Historia de un amor"

http://members.tripod.com/~lacubanaza/histamor.mid

Of course, there's a lot of new versions out there, modern, beautifull songs, I like to dance Salsa and love cuban and newyorikan orquestras, just want you to go to the root and you will underestand much better what is this all about, remember, the actitud is really important, you have to transmit a feeling, for ex. Bolero is a simple romantic dance, their lyrics in Spanish are ussually kind of sad, they talk about goodbyes, broken hearts, cheats, etc. Salsa is a very happy rhitm, sexy, the woman is showing you what she have and you lead her. Mambo is indeed a happy dance but kind of silly to me. I love Tango, all do is not cuban but is the sexiest/tragic dance over the earth, you must dance this with your soul, as if it where the last time you'll get to see your partner. Samba is of course really happy and sexy and fun and .... LOL.

I was thinking that maybe we can help each other trying to find links with Cha Cha Cha music (and other rhitms as well) and maybe video links, that way we know exactly what we are talking about, you see, the think is that between the Balldances, the thousand's of dance teatchers etc etc things have being distorsioned a lot and sometimes you even hear certains rithms be called with wrong names.

OK pal, sorry about the dah bah duh-bla bla bla. Nice to be here !!! Take care. ;)

Cuban Girl. To clarify things a little. If you have never seen a International style competition, which now is worldwide and includes Waltz, Tango, Foxtrot, V. Waltz, and Quickstep. In Latin we have Rumba, Samba, Paso Doble, Cha Cha and Jive. One of the biggest and most famous is the British at Blackpool England. In some parts of Europe they can draw an audience of 10, 000. There they are fortunate to have Ice Hocky Stadiums which are easily converted to ballroom,. Masses of seating, sound system already set up and so on. If you look on this site you will see a section for what we refer to as Street Latin. In the International Ch Cha Basic there are four beats and five steps, which can be counted 2 3 4 & 1 or if you like 2 3 Cha Cha Cha. On the beat of 2 we step foreward then replace ( which is Beat 3. After completing the first bar of music the man will step back R.F.then replace the weight to the L.F. and finish with a 4 & 1. That is the finish of a front and back basic ( two bars of music ). From there the moves that are done can be very spectaclar. I went to a Salsa Class and what was unusual was the teacher from Latin America was dancing his foreward step on the beat of two which is as is the International Style Rumba and Cha. All other places I have been to do their foreward or backward step on one. There is an American style Latin which also has its own section and its own style. There is also a style danced in the USA which is called Smooth which is again a style which differs from the International. These are danced in competition. Later this month in the International Style there is the Worlds Dance Championship were dancers from all over the world will be taking place. It is not uncommon for there to be 350 couples competing in one event. That is about 17 heats at 5 dances per heat. I put this in to try to impress on you the magnitude of this style of dancing. If it is at all possible see if you can find a DVD of the World Super Stars Latin Festival 2003.That is six of the worlds best each performing five dances. The Samba you won't recognise. I think you might be impressed though. Happy Dancing.

Hi Don, I have seeing some competitions and I adore them, but because I'm not really into it I would like to know if there's a channel for that or how can I get to see a competition from day.

I underestand what you are saying and as I said I'm not trying to impress noone because I'm not a dance teatcher, however what I've seen, the (Latin music in the US) with really good excepcions doesn't impresed me much because everything is really distortionated. But you keep going on what you are doing and happy dancing for you too!. ;)

Cuban Girl i am sorry to say you are all wrong about the U.S. not having good dancer's. I am 70 years old and learned to dance the Mambo and cha cha cha on the streets of New York and at the Paladium and still can dance my rear end off, and there are plenty of other dancers from that era that can do so also. You say it is disoriented and that is true because everything now is "SALSA". No individual dances with steps unique to that dance. Go to any dance or night club where everythi ng is a remix and everyone does the same steps or wiggling and shaking to any kind of music played. The more you shake scream and gyrate the more people assume that you are a good dancer, HUMBUG No true defined steps to a certain type of music played. I have another post on this subject.
There is a simple trueism, if you want to be a good dancer and be able to feel the beat you have to dance on2. The style that is now so popular in Miami is "DANCING ON 2 NEW YORK STYLE, and there is a reason for that. I am talking real life dancing not competition dancing which is more acobatic and show and most of the time doesn't show or have the true feeling for the dance. As far as cuban beats Mongo sanatamaria, Patato Valdez, two of the greatest conga drum players and almost any of the oldtime latin bands will say on 2 is the way to dance. Not to contradict myself but the object is to have a good time, so any beat should suffice, but if you want to bring it to another level you have to learn to dance on 2. In fact many years ago ( about 1957)a dancer TYBIE brought a cuban style dancing of the cha cha cha back to the U.S. where you are on the balls of your feet and while dancing you are hopping without lifting your feet while you are doing 1,2 cha cha cha .It gives the dance another dimension and the pachanga was patterned after this type of step. Johnny Pacheco husband of Celia Cruz was a pioneer for the Pachanga. The gist is Ballroom or exhibition dancing is nice to watch but most people who love dancing to the LATIN BEAT are doing it because they love it not for show or competition and can relate to the basic steps that are unique to that dance. I was a professional dancer when dancing with a partner side by side was the style,and it was just great steps and rythum,and was every bit as intricate as exhibition dancing without all the acrobatics. It was something that the average dancer could attain with hard work.

RON/ Latin Rules