"When teaching someone to dance for the first time you obviosly have to get them to dance the timing with each foot since they have no flight."

Why should beginner dancers have no flight once they put on their dance shoes, when the probably had flight on the walk between the car and the studio door?

"I say try dancing a curved feather from a contra check without using the second step to continue the rise or control the timing"

A curved feather does not have waltz rise, so the second step will be different than in a figure which does.

When they walk from the car to the studio they use each foot for the flight and not alternate feet. Yes you are right they can dance it with flight at the very begining with a good teacher and a quick learner but would they not still have to dance the timing with the feet at least untill they no longer have to think what they have to do with the feet. Please at what point in the NT do we not PUSH . Thank You . Dave PS: I don't see any visable difference in the rise of a feather step in the waltz compared to the the basic 18 of the waltz, is the timing not the same. What am I missing? Thanks

Feather should be Curved feather,sorry.

" I don't see any visable difference in the rise of a feather step in the waltz compared to the the basic 18 of the waltz,"

A basic waltz figure rises along a path of underhanded (pendulum) swing to cease motion with the feet together. A (curved) feather rises along a more linear path and crests softly as a metromic* or overhanded swing, with only a slowing rather than a cessation of motion at the peak of rise.

(*metronomic swing = allusion to motion of an inverted pendulum such as the old tick-tock metronome)

Thanks Suomymona. I was taught to change weight quickly enough at the top of the swing in the natural so that there would be no pause and so the rise would be the same. My teacher a world finalist called that "if I remember correctly" splitting the beat,also by splitting the beat one leg is always moving when we dance, so that as soon as the right leg is along side the left the left is moving befor you have lowered. This needs strong ankles, so the ankles have to be strengthend through various exercises.

If we said there is a horizontal plane as well as a vertical plane in the swing of the waltz, then yes we do pause on the horizontal plane when we bring our feet together in the NT, but on the vertical plane "the rise and fall" there is no pause and both the curved feather and NT are danced with a waltz timing.

"but on the vertical plane "the rise and fall" there is no pause and both the curved feather and NT are danced with a waltz timing."

You obviously neglected to look up the rise and fall for the curved feather before posting. It's actually given as the same as for the linear feather: rise end of 1, up on 2. This is different than waltz, where you commence to rise end of step 1 and continue to rise on steps 2 and 3.

"My teacher a world finalist called that "if I remember correctly" splitting the beat,also by splitting the beat one leg is always moving when we dance, so that as soon as the right leg is along side the left the left is moving befor you have lowered."

This is not really right. There are period of time with the feet apart where the body is moving horizontally but the feet are not. Some might mistakenly consider these to be times of split weight; they aren't, but they are times when the body is in transition and the trailing foot should not yet have started to draw closed.

On three of a foot closure waltz figure, the standing heel should touch the floor before the moving thigh swings backwards. The foot can articulate backwards from the ankle and to a limited extent the knee before this, but during the time when there is substantial foot rise the legs will not have yet begun to divide. Many dances fall off the foot closure steps into a feet-apart landing, rather than accomplishing much of the lowering before the legs divide.

I think it is possible to become too scientific. On the underneath instep of your shoes in felt pen write your telephone number. Which is for obviouse reasons a good idea. When you reach your highest point on you toes it should be possible to see the number by some person looking on. With the girls that shoe that has the Diamante on the instep, that should be seen. If it isn't you will have to undo most of what is being done and build around that. Don't get too high on step two, and do count in half beats, lowering on the three and. Remember that saying
KISS. Keep it simple stupid.

Well Don I admit I am not very bright,that's why I always think of KISS in reference to the Lady's. A meeting of the lips rather than the mind. No offence intended Lady's.