What sort of a foot position will that give the lady.She will look like Daffy Duck. Try the man's steps into a turning lock, half a turn on the RF ,very much with the same technique as the ladies step four which is not a true pivot.Incidently the Spin Turn does not travel like it did in the beginning. There is very little movement down the floor between step four and five. If there was a pivot on four there would be.The step under scrutiny is step five for the lady. There is coninuence of technique in todays steps. What we do to the right does not change when we go to the left. Try this. Imagine you are doing the ladies steps. Facing straight down LOD. Do the first three of the Natural to pick up the correct alignment, at some time you will be with the feet apart closing the RF to th LF. just complete 3/8ths of a turn on the left foot to finish, or where the man wants to finish. It's as simple as that. If the lady does Pivot the forth step the fifth will go to far down the LOD. If she steps four with no or not much turn onto five, then we have travel as well as a duck footed lady.

You experts have lost me? Are you talking about the NST. On step four the the Lady has a strong swing forward,up and arround and into her brush,the amount of her turn is determined by the mans body lead

Her LF(5th step) goes where her body puts it.

"What sort of a foot position will that give the lady.She will look like Daffy Duck. Try the man's steps into a turning lock, half a turn on the RF ,very much with the same technique as the ladies step four which is not a true pivot.

"Incidently the Spin Turn does not travel like it did in the beginning. There is very little movement down the floor between step four and five. If there was a pivot on four there would be."

There is quite a bit of movement between steps four and five, the refinement is that most of it is taken with the lady's body still sideways forward to the movement, similar to between steps four and five of an ordinary natural. If a true pivot were danced, she would already be moving backwards at this point and releasing her departing toe.
Similar positions on the floor, but different body mechanics between them.

"If she steps four with no or not much turn onto five, then we have travel as well as a duck footed lady."

The bulk of turn, like almost all such turns, is made as she arrives onto the fifth step, with both feet rotating the same amount at the same time. In this case they will be fairly parallel throughout.

Dave . The Natural Spin Turn Waltz International Style Ladies Steps
Step four, at the end of step four the lady will turn 1/2 a turn over her right RF. The rest of the turn wherever the man wishes to come out normaly
3/8ths, is done on the left foot. There is no rise on four the rise is at the end of step five. The turn on the ladies RF is not a Pivot. The LF is not held in CBMP otherwise that would be a pivot. That's it. Take my tip, when learning a figure or a group have no pre- conceived ideas in your head of how it should be done. We are all the same,when we get to a part we think we know we mentally switch off, and it goes right over our heads.

"The Natural Spin Turn Waltz International Style Ladies Steps Step four, at the end of step four the lady will turn 1/2 a turn over her right RF."

Sorry, but the turn of the right foot comes well after the end of step four, after step five is placed, it is when the actual arrival onto step five commences.

Try to turn over her right foot and she will be dancing a natural pivot turn, not a natural spin turn.

Guys get with it. How can the lady possibly step onto five without turning on four. Unless you are one of thoes that thinks step four plus five goes diagonal to the wall. Anyway get your book out.The turn over step four is not a pivot if the technique book is any guide it tells just that. It is important to remember that the lady does not use a true pivot on step 4. "The pivoting action". indicates that the weight is held over the RF.slightly longer than in a normal turn, but the LF is not held in CBMP during the turn. To do this in fact is impossible ( Diagram on page 123 )
Dave there is no rise for the lady on step four. The rise is at the end of step five. There is no rise for the man on 4 he does a normal pivot and as we all know there is no rise on a pivot, unless you wish to send your lady into orbit. Read Suomyona second paragraph, it is almost as good as the book I quoted from. So don't worry I've also done steps with the wrong technique for probably longer than yourself, untill I met up with a world top ranked dancer. You can blame your early teachers for any misunderstanding you might have. It is not too late to undo though. By the way anything that I may write Modern or Latin comes not from me but from a former seventh and a currant fifth in this World today. There is still half a turn for the lady on step 4 just in case this has got lost in all of the above, and the step does go down LOD.

Quickstep.You are right to a point,I got my feet miked up when writing,but you continue to assume my teacher was second rate and that therefore I must be an inferior dancer than you. I don't find that conducive to intelegent conversation so I will leave this website all to you.Bye

Hi Dave.
When a subscriber to this message board has to keep posting under different guest names, such as: Quickstep (AKA Don); Onlooker (AKA Don) Anonymous 1 (AKA Don); Nog (AKA Don. Now retired). It's not you, Dave, that should be leaving. Now, how do I know all this. Just check the spelling: FOREWARD.

"Guys get with it. How can the lady possibly step onto five without turning on four."

Quite similar to the way she does so on steps 4-5 of a natural turn. If you're not dancing that correctly, then you are the one who needs to "get with it".

"Anyway get your book out.The turn over step four is not a pivot if the technique book is any guide it tells just that. It is important to remember that the lady does not use a true pivot on step 4."

And my strong suggestion to you is that you really minimize this pivoting action, as trying to actually do it will not produce the correct result. This is probably the place where I have more issue with the book's explanation than any other.

"Dave there is no rise for the lady on step four. The rise is at the end of step five. There is no rise for the man on 4"

The book's usage of the word rise is reserved for a far narrow range of applications than the average person's. In this case, there is a return towards normal standing height on step 4 which a normal person would consider rise, but does not involve the specific actions that would qualify it for the book's intentionally narrow definition of the word. At the very least, there should be an abscence of foot rise.

"he does a normal pivot and as we all know there is no rise on a pivot, unless you wish to send your lady into orbit."

This is not a pivot. But rise on real pivots *is* an option.

"By the way anything that I may write Modern or Latin comes not from me but from a former seventh and a currant fifth in this World today."

I do not consider that a high enough result to create authority. Authority by competition results alone would require multiple Blackpool titles. Authority by reason of making sense is open to anyone.

"There is still half a turn for the lady on step 4 just in case this has got lost in all of the above, and the step does go down LOD."

It goes down the LOD, and there is strong rotation of her body, but there is no half turn in her feet. Try watching some videos in slow motion.