"I don't think there will ever be any major changes in the footwork or the use of rise and fall including CBM and CBMP Poise will remain the same."

You have for some time now been able to see drastic changes (to the point of complete ommission of some of these things) within the same final.

" I really don't see how anyone could now or then dance according to the book."

Exactly - you don't see how it is possible because you don't fully understand what is being requested. If you did, you would know that some competitors are extremely close to it, and some are almost totally revolutionary.

Suomynona. Still on that fourth step Reverse Turn Foxtrot. If I don't curve that fourth step and I am facing wall on that fifth step I then take step six in a CBMP position. If I slightly curve that fouth step I can eliminate that CBMP position and just go into a CBM .
If anyone were to try this you will find that it gets a bit of a move on. You'll be been and gone. compared to your CBMP friends.

"Suomynona. Still on that fourth step Reverse Turn Foxtrot. If I don't curve that fourth step and I am facing wall on that fifth step I then take step six in a CBMP position. If I slightly curve that fouth step I can eliminate that CBMP position and just go into a CBM .
If anyone were to try this you will find that it gets a bit of a move on. You'll be been and gone. compared to your CBMP friends."

If you are trying to avoid CBMP on step 6, which is outside partner, then you really have no idea what you are doing.

Today's dancing isn't dancing. It's a lot of unnecessary theatrics.

The dancing of "yore" was supposed to be fun, aesthetic, and semi-athletic, but not to the extremes seen today. A couple could "go on all night long" and not get winded- and shouldn't have had to- it IS dancing, not a triathlon, remember?

In the good old days, you wouldn't DARE dance with a "lady" that looked like the ones winning world-class comps. In fact, your mother and your best friend's mom might whisper behind their hands about her if she walked past on the street.

If you saw someone dancing the way "The Pros" do on a regular floor, you'd think they were OD'ing on crack.

There's something very unsexy about orange people.

But then, this is why I'm "just" a social dancer. I'll keep pouring my money into (figuratively) your industry though, so you can continue to flourish, and ignore the "ordinary" people buying shoes and skirts and DVDs, and make them flatout SCARED to walk through a studio door- a fear not present in the 50's. It's nice to email a studio "We're from out of town- do you know of any social dance venues welcoming to newcomers?" ... and they write back "Sorry, this is for ADVANCED (their caps, not mine) students... what level are you? You can come watch our social dance, though..." Well screw that.

I wonder where "Ballroom Dancing is SO gay" came from (you don't hear it as often any more, but there in the recent future to semi-present among certain demographics)- there's a period in between then and now that it became that way. I wonder if it's BECAUSE of what's only seen on TV and in ads.

This is only my opinion and is not intended to change that of anyone else's- and I doubt it will, Lol. I think there's room for modern improvement but I also think it's important to retain what made ballroom Ballroom, without getting caught up in all the faddish hype.

I believe in being correct and learning and executing the correct steps "the right way" (but make your minds up on it, eh?), but if being correct means looking like some of these competitors, I'll just stick with all that I can do without making it "un-fun". That's one of the luxuries of being "social only". You can tell people where to stick it if they make subtle "you don't know what you're doing and IIIII DO of COURSE" snipes like on this thread.

Macha you make a lot of good (and quite amusing) points.

The irony is that you may be seeing the bitter arguments within the competition community as exclusive, but in fact one side in those arguments is trying to restore a lot of what you correctly percieve as missing.

Competition is moving dangerously far in the direction of olympic gymnastics, and as a result becomes very exclusive. Because competitors are no longer being held to task for the poor quality of their actual dancing, they are able to shift the game into an area where only the best prepared can even seem to be practicing the same sport.

In contrast, if we forced competitors to maintain their classic skills, and if we taught those more effectively to walk ins, everyone would once again be on a common line of development. Instead of practicing mutually exclusive activities, we'd all be doing essentially compatible dancing, only at different degrees of mastery as suits our different quality and performance needs.

But right now, some half of what is taught to beginners is completely ignored or rejected by competitors. No wonder many feel uncomfortable around them - they are held up as the ideal, but they are in fact doing something entirely different, leaving beginners who face this roadblack believing that the fault is their own.

That I can understand, and see regularly. "Well, you're no good unless you learned it THIS way," by the same people who don't DO it that way.

WAY confusing.

Suomynona. This argument becomes a bit ridiculous when some contradict themselves. You for instance have stated that there is not a half a turn on the RF step four for the lady. That will mean that step four is taken diag to wall. Fair enough I do the same.But what alignment are we to used if the Spin Turn is overturned into a Turning Lock . It won't be taken diag to wall will it. Unless they open the doors to let you fly out. I think you will find that the man has a step simular to the ladies which is half a turn over the right foot to back LOD. This is not the Turning Lock that goes diag centre and finishes diag wall. It's the other one. That's why I used the word Ridiculouse. We do as we feel to get the most attractive shape and movement out of the steps.Build comes into the equation also. A tall very slim couple will be using a different technique that the shorter more solid partnership. And thats the way it should be.

"This argument becomes a bit ridiculous when some contradict themselves. You for instance have stated that there is not a half a turn on the RF step four for the lady. That will mean that step four is taken diag to wall."

The only inconsistency there is between my views and yours. I have always insisted that step 4 be taken down the LOD, just as step 4 of the continued natural turn would be.

Sumonynona. No I am not trying to eliminate CBMP it just happens if I try to get both feet pointing in the same direction instead of one pointing East and the pointing West. I think you will find that todays teachers teach that the feet point in your new direction even before the body on many figures. Open Telemark Open Imputus there are two places where one foot can get sadly left behind.