Learning to lead in partner dancing and learning to dance socially are two different things.

Social dancing exposes you to the (unfortunately) mediocre dancing that exists when people take a few beginner lessons and then endlessly grind into their muscle memory all the bad dancing that exists with the many.

Your best way to learn quality dance is to learn with one partner, and be taught by an instructor that can show both of you what to do and look for in dancing.

There is no advantage to knowing how to lead around people who do not know basic dance principles. And, remember, that many of these social dancers, that have 10 or even 20 years of 'experience', are simply doing walking step patterns that they 'figured out'. And, they actually think they are 'doing it right' since everyone they know around them does the same things.

Your muscle memory is what training is for. Do it with the right training and you will never have to look like the social dancers. And believe me, as you progress, you'll see that the social dancers look less and less qualified.

Proam is sometimes considered a good alternative to social dancing, but is not really a good way to learn how to dance, if only because you're not dancing with someone at your level and learning how to correct problems. A pro will certainly see your faults, but the only way to correct alignment, foot placement etc is by the teacher observing you against another body - they can't really tell what is going on when you are in their arms, altho they can give you an approximation of the feeling of dancing at a high level.

Talk to almost anyone who has progressed past beginner stages in amateur and they will tell you that the proam lady is usually the least competent (even compared to the social dancer) in actual dancing since they are usually 'pulled thru' by their pro (they always say that they 'dance better' with their pro, but of course that is an illusion, and is the addictive quality of proam dancing that makes these ladies come back again and again).

"Your best way to learn quality dance is to learn with one partner, and be taught by an instructor that can show both of you what to do and look for in dancing."

No, your best way to really learn is to do what you suggest, but then also dance with a community of others who know what they are doing.

I agree with you, Anon. My goal is to be a competitor with one partner and the best way is to find one as soon as possible and start getting the feel for eachother under the instruction of a professional teacher. I'm not in it for the social aspect and I don't go out to clubs to use my ballroom lessons on other women, since I am married.

I have a friend that recently divorced,
two kids, and has independent financial means. She is athletic, fit and has done lots of other athletic activities.

She has been taking ballroom lessons for about 1 year now. She selected a very seasoned Pro to dance Proam with and has another pro to stand over them and work on technique, styling, and choreography. She is doing something like what Barbara Moore (std proam champ) did with Igor. She take about 4 or 5 hours of lessons per day with two pros. The results are amazing. She looks good with her pro partner dancing their routines, but is somewhat lost dancing with anyone else (she is gradually getting better). However, Comp. dancing is dancing your technique, routines and picking choreography that will help make you look good.

Most Proam ladies don't even bother to dance much with anyone except their Proam partner. And they get really spoiled with good leads and the way their pro dances. A big shortcut for the lady.

The Proam male is much different. He still has to lead, count, floorcraft, and do lots of thinking. He won't look that much better dancing with a Pro partner. He will do much better getting a pro partner after he has developed good technique skills.

Where would ballroom dancing be without Proam? It pumps plenty of money into ballroom and keeps lots of good dancers and teachers in the profession. Most Eastern Europeon dancers quit at about age 25 and think that it is time to get serious about life--job, career, kids, and marriage.

An adult can take on ballroom as a serious hobby--like golf or bridge--and keep it up until a very old age.

One lesson per week from a good pro is enough for most dancers--and will get good results if it's kept up over the years.

<<two kids, and has independent financial means. She is athletic, fit and has done lots of other athletic activities.

She has been taking ballroom lessons for about 1 year now. She selected a very seasoned Pro to dance Proam with and has another pro to stand over them and work on technique, styling, and choreography. She is doing something like what Barbara Moore (std proam champ) did with Igor. She take about 4 or 5 hours of lessons per day with two pros. >>>

This is the classic lady proammer.

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I doubt that she is 'amazing', after only one year of work. The time spent is not always equal to resluts - it also takes time (a longer arc, so to speak) to make the movement really work

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and this is the classic proam lady problem. A teacher makes her look good but does not teach her how to partner dance. techniques like manipulating her with his arms, and the very fact that he is savvy enough to give her what she understands only, will contribute to this. The fact that she is somewhat lost points out the problem.

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that's a part of it. Competiton dancing is a contest (in am/am or pro/pro) when the couples go outside the 'routine' to make good dancing. You can't pick choreography in advance of, for instance, being cut off, or to make the dancing fit the musical changes. You are right that dancing your technique is a big part of it.

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And a detriment.

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And why is the male's part any different? And why is the only reason to do proam to look good? Where's the dance education?

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Agreed, proam is what 'pays the bills'.

An adult can take on ballroom as a serious hobby--like golf or bridge--and keep it up until a very old age.

One lesson per week from a good pro is enough for most dancers--and will get good results if it's kept up over the years.


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I've said it all before in other threads, so I won't go on at length here. But, for others reading this, I want to say that this description of pro-am dancing is not necessarily true. If you have the right pro, you will learn to dance well. 'Nuff said.

I have been dancing with a teacher
for 9 mo. now and we have our first
comp. coming up soon.

Thinking back and comparing my amateur
partner dancing. Lots of fights over stupid stuff and it is always the guys fault--right? Don't think we had a partnership made in heaven. Not all amateurs fight.. but if you dance with a good pro it is a lot more fun and I feel that my dancing skills have improved faster than when dancing with an amateur. Especially if you express that you are really interested in improving your technique and not doing lots of fancy patterns or showcases.

It is harder for a guy to learn to dance--to begin with most don't have a dance background (ballet, tap, jazz) like most women. He needs to count, lead, have a good frame, floorcraft, and so on. I've heard that sometimes it takes a beginner guy 2 to 3 years to even hear music well. He is just overwhelmed at the beginning with all the other stuff.

I have had good luck dancing with most pro am ladies--especially if they are taught by my male teacher.

It is all about your goal, the reason why you are dancing. For some Pro/Am will make sense, being able to dance with your pro; for others, they want to be able to dance with lots of partners and prefer amateur partner.
If you are doing Pro/Am, only your side of the dancing needs to be fixed; for amateur dancing, both sides probably needs attention.

2 choices, you pick the one that fits your goal.

Some men are naturally good dancers. My husband and I are an amatuar couple, and his ability to learn is more advanced then mine. Often when learning a new concept or step he will watch the ladies part, understand quickly and during practice help me with the step.

My husabnd came from a family that enjoyed music, and music played all the time as he was growing up. This setting gave him good ability to dance to the music when we started to take lessons... My family never played music... So really you never know who is going to excel in a formal instructional setting.

Twinkle Toes. A teacher with only a few months experience would not even be able to correct your posture, let alone tell you how to move.