Anonymous. It suddenly came to me that we might be talking at cross perposes. If you are arriving on a straight knee which barely bends, your weight will arrive fairly forward. If as todays dancers, bend the knee as the weight arrives over the front foot it is not possible to have the body in front of the knee. When I was first taught the Foxtrot was very straight legged dance, definitely a tall persons dance. This was always an issue that the order of dances in a competition favoured the tall couples. So it was changed from Waltz Foxtrot Tango Quickstep. To Waltz Tango Foxtrot Quickstep. There was no V Waltz. The change in the those dances was because a taller couple had their best two dances first which was an advantage. So after much deliberation it was changed. If you have been taught as I was in those distant days you will arrive over the front foot with only the slightest of bends. Hardly a flex. Which could be likend to a Rumba where the knee is dead straight and the weight goes forward. Today tall or short the step could be compared to the Samba where we arrive on a straight knee which immediately bends . I must add that in the old Foxtrot the rise and lower was through the feet. Not so today. I wonder who among us does an entirely different first step in the Waltz to the Foxtrot. Might be worth looking at. As I have said many times. Go look at your videos and see for ones self. It shouldn't be too hard to pick.

"When I was first taught the Foxtrot was very straight legged dance"

Quickstep, you are still confusing the technique of dancing with the magnitude of dancing. There has been no fundamental change in the proper technique between the straighter leg days and today. All that has changed is that the top dancers are more athletic - they move more, and as a result they have to lower more deeply. This is not a change from the old way, just an extension of it. There is however a common mistake, and that is to lower deeply when not moving a lot. That was wrong, and it still is wrong.

"I must add that in the old Foxtrot the rise and lower was through the feet. Not so today."

It still is. But you may fail to see this, because there is more leg action going on as well. Sometimes today you see bad dancers with only leg action and no foot action - this is wrong. Good dancers use foot action always, and andd leg if and only if they are going to make large movements.

"If you are arriving on a straight knee which barely bends, your weight will arrive fairly forward. If as todays dancers, bend the knee as the weight arrives over the front foot it is not possible to have the body in front of the knee."

You are confusing departure with arrival and the foot with the knee. On departure, the body is directly over the knee, which is advancing ahead of the foot. On arrival the foot is slightly ahead of the knee which is slightly ahead of the body, these distances shrinking to zero during the arrival.

Anonymous. It would appear that your last paragraph agrees with what I have been saying since about page 77. I still say and repeat. If you try to instruct a beginner or even higher that the body flights ahead of the foot.
More harm than good will be accomplished
I can remember this dicussion way back when Jonathan published a frame by frame from a video.And still there were those who said that it was wrong. They also said the figures on a Forward and Backward Walk in the learning section on this sight was wrong.I remember writting at that time that if we stood close, and facing a wall and step our toe will arrive before our nose. Do you know some clown said that was wrong. The only mention of flight that I know of was said by Richard Gleave when he said we fly the V.Waltz. But that's on a sideway step.Even then the foot is just ahead of the side of the body. Must remember that this time the query was by Puzzled who only wanted to know about the first step of a Foxtrot. The points of balance. The comment that on arrival the foot is slightly ahead of the knee which is slightly ahead of the body those differences shrink to zero on arrival. How could it be any other way. Can't go from A to C without passing B.

The main issue is with departure, not arrival. At departure the body absolutely has to be ahead of both feet - there is no choice in the matter unless you want to look silly.

Anonymous.How does the body then get to a split weight position. That's with the weight equally divided between the front and the back leg. That has got to happen. As I said before, and if you would care to explain. How can we get to position C without first passing position B. I can assure you that at some time the weight will be equally divided, being propelled by the standing foot to a position over the front foot which will bend to cushion the arriving body. As I have said several times. Go look at the videos.

"Anonymous.How does the body then get to a split weight position. That's with the weight equally divided between the front and the back leg."

It doesn't because it shouldn't. But it still could - the body starts out ahead of the foot, but then the foot catches up and gets ahead. It shouldn't get so far ahead that the body is halfway inbetween as so many mistakenly argue, but starting with the body ahead of the foot would not prevent accomplishing that - if you really insisted on shooting yourself in the foot in that manner.

"As I have said several times. Go look at the videos."

As I have said several times, the videos are wrong, and do a good job of demonstrating the trouble you get into if you keep your body mideway between your feet instead of closer to the front foot where it is supposed to be. See how Jonathan's thigh nearly lifts Melissa's body?

Anonymous. Alex Moore.Distribution of weight in the Walk. When comencing a Walk from a closed position, the weight must always be brought forward over the balls of the feet before a foot is moved.
In the actuall walk the weight is first on the stationary foot. At the full extent of the stride it is divided for a moment between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the rear foot. It is taken immediately on to the front foot as this foot becomes flat.
Points to remember are-.
From a stationary position, always FEEL the body commences to move slightly before before the foot. Remember the speed of the foot is always greater than the speed of the body.
Is this where this body flight thing comes from. Read again. Always FEEL that the body commences to move slightly before the feet.To have a feeling is the key word. I had a feeling I have been here before. Does that mean I have been here before.
Didn't Suomynona point out that the forward step starts on the ball of the foot travells a short distance and then becomes a heel. I've looked at the Feather Step video clip and have not seen anything that contradicts all of the above. What I can see is a verticle body position of the man which stays verticle throughout the steps. The body being carried by the legs. Now how about the Backward Step, where the step is way out behind, with the weight over the supporting foot which is bent to the front and has not yet moved. Think. If you hurl your body forward what will happen to the ladies step. And are we standing up straight, are we verticle. Or are we leaning forward. I will just add this. Anybody who met Alex Moore will tell you he was very precise with what he said and the words he would use. Look up Feel. To have a belief or impression, especially with an identifiable reason. What to you does that mean.

Hi
I suppose the centralising of the body weight will be more noticeable on a side step.

"I suppose the centralising of the body weight will be more noticeable on a side step."

Actually less. The body moves first, the leg swings sideways under it - it doesn't really go more than a small amount to the side of the body.

The lady cannot tell where the man's free foot is - but she can tell where his body is going. The only way to coordinate is to make the movement of the body cause the movement of the foot - then when the bodies match the feet automatically match as well.

"Anonymous. Alex Moore.Distribution of weight in the Walk. When comencing a Walk from a closed position, the weight must always be brought forward over the balls of the feet before a foot is moved."

Yes, body first. Increased movement todays makes this even more important than it was when Moore was writing.

"In the actuall walk the weight is first on the stationary foot. At the full extent of the stride it is divided for a moment between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the rear foot."

I dispute that in actual dancing, but it's not really the point of interest.

"Remember the speed of the foot is always greater than the speed of the body."

Not really, in that there's a substantial fraction of each step when neither foot is moving. But the bigger mistake is to forget that the foot has a long way to catch up with the body - even if it's moving faster than the body. If you start with your feet together, your free foot won't begin to move at all until the body is out ahead of it, because the legs never move themselves - they only move in response to being carried by the advancing body (then overshoot slightly).

Note that the "body halfway between the feet" fallacy is not contained in any reputable textbook.

"Is this where this body flight thing comes from."

No, body flight does not figure in the description of a single step because a single step cannot have body flight by definition - body flight is something carried between steps. It comes from the previous step. A step starting from a stationary position cannot have body flight - though it can initiate movement which will be body flight for the following step.

"Read again. Always FEEL that the body commences to move slightly before the feet.To have a feeling is the key word."

It's more than a feeling, it's a necessary reality.

"I've looked at the Feather Step video clip and have not seen anything that contradicts all of the above."

Look at how the thight swings forward much faster than the body, running into the partner's body. This is a very very common mistake, but a severe one. If you follow the common (mistaken) instructions, this is what you achieve. Only if you commit to sending your body ahead of your foot, with your foot overtaking it but slightly near the extreme of the stride can you avoid this kind of uncomfortable situation.

"Now how about the Backward Step, where the step is way out behind, with the weight over the supporting foot which is bent to the front and has not yet moved. "

The supporting foot has not moved, but the body weight should have already departed it via a timely heel push/toe release. Remember that the toe release starts as soon as the moving foot passes the standing one.

"Anybody who met Alex Moore will tell you he was very precise with what he said and the words he would use."

Then I expect you will stop imaginging things in the book that simply aren't there, such as the body equally between the feet nonsense.