Anonymous.Lets kill two birds with one stone. Who says there is no balance point at the beginnig of the step. Just ask yourself where the step begins and ends. Feet parallel. Step either foot, thats only half the step. The step finishes only as the moving foot draws parallel to the standing foot. Again a chance to balance. Wouldn't you say that that is a neutral position. You must arrive there whether you like it or not. So half way through the step where will your body be.Work this one out. We know , or I hope we do, that we never step square to our front. We always have CBM or CBMP. So half way through a step are we on a heel and a toe or not. I think even you will agree that on the second quick, or if you like to call it the third step of a Feather with CBMP your weight is dead central and the footwork is a TH. This is not a trick question. As the toe lowers where should the moving leg be in relation to the RF. That is according to the technique book. Lets back track. If you know the ladies correct lowering you should also know the man's because they must blend. It's that wicked neutral balance point again. We haven't even got into foot pressure which actually contols the timing yet. A little bit more to think about. "Alex Moore Important note. The advanced dancer on a forward step the majority of advanced dancers do not adhere to the rule of contact with the floor. When moving the back foot to a forward position the heel does not actually touch the floor untill it reaches the full extent of the stride. The movement foot becomes softer and lighter that could be achieved with the heel in contact to the floor".
This is not for the lady or whoever is moving backwards. Look at that very carefully, that's the going forward part. If your weight is to the front how do you propose the keep the heel off the floor. Don't blame me. I didn't write the book. Something more which was written on this site. Considering all of the above. How anybody can teach with only a few weeks of dancing experience I'll never know.

"Anonymous.Lets kill two birds with one stone."

Indeed, let's debunk some myths for the 1000th time...

"Who says there is no balance point at the beginnig of the step. Just ask yourself where the step begins and ends. Feet parallel."

More importantly, feet moving.

"Step either foot, thats only half the step. The step finishes only as the moving foot draws parallel to the standing foot. Again a chance to balance."

Nope, have to keep moving.

"Wouldn't you say that that is a neutral position. You must arrive there whether you like it or not."

And you must keep moving, wether you like it or not. If you want to stop, you have to rise to foot closure. Only then would you be balanced.

"So half way through the step where will your body be.Work this one out."

Closer to your front foot, if you paid any attention.

"We know , or I hope we do, that we never step square to our front. We always have CBM or CBMP."

Or the opposite...

"So half way through a step are we on a heel and a toe or not."

That's not halfway through the step. At some point you will have both of these touching the ground, but you will not have any measurable time with weight in both.

"I think even you will agree that on the second quick, or if you like to call it the third step of a Feather with CBMP your weight is dead central and the footwork is a TH."

First this is not a heal lead, so the technique is different from that of heel lead steps. It's also into CBMP, which as in tango gives you a lot of partner clearance inherint in the body position. But still, the body will be closer to the front foot than the rear foot - in large part because the front leg has to reach across your body (unless you are one of those fools who unwinds the CBMP as you take the step).

"This is not a trick question. As the toe lowers where should the moving leg be in relation to the RF. That is according to the technique book.

It's unspecified. All it says is that the heel must be on the ground before the other foot can close.
"We haven't even got into foot pressure which actually contols the timing yet."

Nonsense - body movement controls the timing. If you try to control it with foot pressure, you have to hold your body back, which is wrong.

"If your weight is to the front how do you propose the keep the heel off the floor."

A lot of people have this ignorant idea that your body must be contanstly supported by your feet, but it just isn't true. You go into unsupported positions all the time when when walking, you just have to learn to scale that up when dancing. Indeed, you must not skate on the heel! You have to learn a willingness to commit your body to movement out into empty space, trusting that the foot which is not there beforehand will arrive in time to be there when you do need support.

You learned to do this at age 2, you just have to learn to keep doing it when dancing.

Anonymous. Maybe you are reading from a different book than me. When commencing a Walk from a closed position, the weight must always be brought over the balls of the feet before the foot is moved.
In the actuall walk the weight is first on the stationary foot. And at the end full extent of the stride it is divided for a moment between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the rear foot.It is taken immediately on to the front foot as this foot becomes flat. That is the weight of the body which is being described Page 10 paragraph 4. If you can tell me the name of any book which describes it differently, then I will buy it. That's provided you didn't write it.
Poise and Balance. Page 9.Without wearing my fingers out and copying the whole paragraph. This is as written. Stand upright. Knees relaxed. The weight of the body will move to the balls of the feet, not letting the heels leave the floor. In doing this do not alter the upright position of the body. You are now in the correct position to commence the Walk. Now analize that if you can. Knees not straight. Weight over the balls of the foot. Heels on the ground. Upright position maintained.
Analize this. A neutral position. When Michael Barr said . The Foxtrot should appear seamless.( if there is no seam why mention it then )To me, to appear seamles, there has to be a seam, otherwise how can it appear to be seamless if it is not there. Why bother to mention it if nothing is happening.
Go to body moving in front of legs. I would like to see thoes who believe this to try it on a Double Reverse Spin, or even an Open Telemark ( first step in both cases ). What a mess it would be. Gone would be the upright position of the man just for starters. And what about the poor partner trying to do her heel turn.

"Anonymous. Maybe you are reading from a different book than me."

No, I am reading the book and being clear about the few things I disagree with - but you are making stuff up.

Can you find any mention of this body halfway between feet fallacy? I didn't think so - because its WRONG.

I do disagree with the book that the weight will actually be divided between the feet at the extreme of stride, but that's a minor issue - it's clear that in any dancing such a period of division would have to be nearly instantaneous anyway.

"When Michael Barr said . The Foxtrot should appear seamless."

The much simpler explanation is that it *is* seamless.

"Go to body moving in front of legs. I would like to see thoes who believe this to try it on a Double Reverse Spin, or even an Open Telemark ( first step in both cases ). What a mess it would be. Gone would be the upright position of the man just for starters. And what about the poor partner trying to do her heel turn."

There is of course only one practical way to dance these figures: body vertically aligned from pelvis to head, advancing as a unit forward of both legs. The moving leg is substantially delayed, finally catching up with the body and swinging a small amount in advance only just at the extreme of the stride. If both partners keep their bodies vertically aligned (or vertical modified by appropriate shape, which is still "vertical" in dance speak) there is no problem with the temporary lack of support - every healthy adult goes through this position thousands of times a day when walking, we just don't think about it because we are used to it, and because it's smaller. Dancing requies scaling up walking without altering it's basic character - not substituting an entirely different foot-first action as many mistakenly do/teach.

Incidentally, since you tryt to quote Michael I'll point out that I've seen Vicki insist on body ahead of foot in lessons.

Anonymous. I'm always willing to try anything that might improve movement and balance. So I got on my treadmill and tried to get my body weight ahead of my feet. It doesn't work. The step forward becomes less. I have yet to find a better bit of advice which I received many years ago. That is to think of putting your moving leg under a table untill the body touches the edge of the table. This does require a bit of bending of the knee. I'm still with Anne Lewis who said the propulsion come from the knee and thigh of the standing leg, and stay on the standing leg longer. At this momment in time I can't find any reference to the term body flight. I can find that at the beginning of a dance the body weight moves to the balls of the feet. It would have to otherwise I am on my heels. Body flight anybody any book. Quoting another paragraph. Moving backwards. When commencing a Walk from a closed position, the weight must always be taken back over the heels before a foot is moved. Interesting
In the actual Walk the weight is first on the stationary foot. At the extent of the stride it is divided for the momment between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot. A good practice for a beginner is as follows. Take a long step backward with the LF and stand balanced with the weight evenly divided with the heel of the front foot and the ball of the rear foot. Could anything be clearer than that You've been a bit ridiculace with some of your past comments.When you've said that writters of books . Former World Champions. One of them several times a Blackpool winner are wrong.One more thing. In music just like writting there are full stops a comas. Unless one dances like a clockwork toy they must be used. That is what makes us different to each other. Except in a Formation Team where there is no place for individuality.

"One more thing. In music just like writting there are full stops a comas. Unless one dances like a clockwork toy they must be used."

Yes, there can be full stops, but to execute a full stop you must use a different technique than is used in normal dancing, where movement is continuos.

Please stop confusing the two.

Those exercises with weight split are intended to improve balance, but they are EXERCISES - they are NOT DANCING.

I think its time for Jonathan to come in, answer the original question and end this thread.

Anonymous. As we all know the weight passes from foot to foot( felt but not seen ) At the extent of the stride the foot must come to a slight stop, which in any language means stop the movement of the foot that is in front. If we didn't we will never get our body into a neutral position. There is your seam, which is felt but not seen.
Quote Backward Walk. Swing the LF back from the hips . At the full extent of the stride the toe is skimming the floor ( seldom seen by the ill informed ). At the full extent of the stride lower to the ball of the foot. At this point the ball of the back foot and the heel of the front foot are touching the floor. Continue to move backward , draw the RF foot back to the LF foot, at the same time slowely lower the LF heel to the floor, making sure that it does not touch the floor untill the RF foot is level with it. So there we have the seams that Michael mentioned, plus the momentary suspension of weight between the feet. I will point out something written above. Continue to move backwards. This is also forward. Why would the writter of the book write continue to move forward or backward if the body is already there.So there we have it. Who can argue about that. Certainly not me. Now if you are talking moving sideways . That becomes a different story. I suspect this is where body flight was first mentioned and the term is now being misused. I think I said before, that body flight was never mentioned untill only a very few years ago.

"Anonymous. As we all know the weight passes from foot to foot( felt but not seen ) At the extent of the stride the foot must come to a slight stop, which in any language means stop the movement of the foot that is in front. If we didn't we will never get our body into a neutral position. There is your seam, which is felt but not seen."

You misunderstood the comment you tried to develop. As the motion of the legs is obviously discontinuous, it is the motion of the body which must be seamless, in both appearance and fact.

"At this point the ball of the back foot and the heel of the front foot are touching the floor."

Touching the floor. But notice there is no comment about the weight! It cannot be split in actual dancing, only in the static exercise if you want to test how long you can stay balanced there.

"Continue to move backward , draw the RF foot back to the LF foot, at the same time slowely lower the LF heel to the floor, making sure that it does not touch the floor untill the RF foot is level with it."

If this is actually in the book it's a mistake. It is now well known that the heel needs to touch down before the feet close.

"I think I said before, that body flight was never mentioned untill only a very few years ago."

It has ALWAYS existed but it is very clear you still have no idea of the concept.