"A Progressive Side Step. A Walk. And a Link. You are now out of rythm with the music. In 2/4 it doesn't matter."

Yes it does matter, because 2/4 tango is phrased in pairs of measures. There is much less difference between 2/4 and 4/4 than you think - in fact you probably can't reliably guess what is written on the sheet music.

"I asked a Lecturer if you dont know what is going to be played how do you manage. The answere is treat every Tango as a 4/4."

Good advice, because both are phrased in units of the same lenght (in once case written as one bar, in the other written as two, but both taking the same amount of time/dancing).

Of course it's not enough to work in four count units, you have to hear the phrasing of the music so you dance your four counts aligned with the musical element, and not straddling two of them. More advanced dancing can of course straddle the boundaries in good ways.

Don and Anonymous, Thanks for replies.
I had played the piano since my childhood and know a few about music theory . When I was playing piano, I followed the feeling given by the music sentences or phrases in my mind . added my current mood which brought me to the scene or story I imagined. even in sonatina.
It will be very enjoyable , while music emotion interpreted by the matching passion and choreography ( tango ).
Unfortunately, on DVD, or clip, some disconnection often happened by the stuff. Please talking more about the phrase, straddle the boundaries ... it is better to give samples to help understanding. Thanks.
ylchen

Yichen. To be a good dancer or teacher it is necessary to understand the music and how it is composed. We have a style here called New Vogue. The music has to be eight bar phrases with a four bar introduction. The dance could be 24 bars before the dance is completed and to start again. Everybody is doing the same steps one behind the other with no overtaking. The advantage with this style of dancing is that everybody is aware of the timing and the phrasing. Which we also have in ordinary dance music for the Waltz Foxtrot Quickstep and V. Waltz.. I've left the Tango out because of the difference withh 2/4 which it is supposed to be . And 4/4 which very often is played. The Waltz is easy. Nobody will dance on anything other than 1 2 3. Foxtrot . Its amazing how many couples will walkin on the intro step on 1 2 and do the first of the Feather on 3 4. They are out of rhythm right from the start. If you have an instruction DVD or Video tape and on it there is a Waltz or Foxtrot group it will be eight bar phrased and they will be on the correct beat. To give an example of one dance that goes out of rhythm and is unavoidable. Thats the V Waltz. After eight bars of Natural we change to the Reverse with a Change Step. Now into the Reverse. Officialy we are out of rhythm and will not get back in untill we change to the Natural. This is accepted. But don't try to do a Reverse Turn Foxtrot on the beats of 3 4. So to the Quickstep . Intro on 3 4. First step of the Quarter Turn on 1 2. Progressive Chasse. Lock Step. Better do a double Lock there if you wish to go into the Natural Spin Turn on the correct beat. All that and we haven't touched Latin which has its own difficulties.

To be a good dancer and teacher it is necessary to understand music and how it is composed.


Great post Don. I am not a trained musician, but have spent lots of time counting beats, listening to phrases, and trying to keep my partner and myself with the music.

A good friend and fellow dancer is a DJ or music man that does a great job at our dances and competitions. He uses a service that rates music, and helps him compile correct tempo's for each dance with defineable beats (he has to speed up or slow down most music). I share music with him and practice to this selected music. I do Am. Smooth, Latin, and a few other social dances--so I have a full plate of recogizing all types of beats, rhythms, and phrasing. It helps if one starts with danceable music that's highly rated and has the correct tempo.

Dancing on beat is one thing, but dancing with phrases is another. Am. Tango is danced in phrases. I usually get into floor craft problems with those long counts of 8 and have to just rock step or hold to wait for the end of the phrase to come around.

I could be much better with phrases and understanding music better. This is one area of dancing I'm really working on. I listen and count to ballroom music in the car, home and wherever. I know that this is a weak link in my dancing. What I have done is compiled a lists of highly rated music in each dance, practice counting, listening for a phrase, practice dancing to it, and get very familiar with it. I under estimated how important it was to be a student of dance music when beginning to dance.

It really helps if you have a good music man at your social dances.

When I first started dancing our local music man was terrible--weird music, tempos off, and no consistancy.

Thanks Don.
Detail and helful. I will analyse the introduction, the transition, phrases not only on beat.
Last night, I danced on myself in the studio. My teacher was teaching a couple . He showed feather step. I suprized that his preparotary left foot enter on 1 then right foot on 2 and treated these 2 steps as slow with strong confidence , the couple watched him without words. Then they danced as their own way...
Marcus emphasized slow with lazy leg is foxtrot one character.
Why he ( my coatch) interpreted like that ? QQQQ?! I did not remember we had ever danced different as that S ( RF arrived on 1, left foot almost past RF on 2 ) /continously swang to its postion on 3 ( toes )q, left side leading/ R toes past and arrived on 4 in CBMP,q in last week lesson. I felt upset .
ylchen

Yichen. Are you sure that your coach DIDN'T use beat one on the left foot Q. Beat two on the Right foot Q. Followed by the two remaining steps of the Feather Step three four Q Q. Four Quicks in all. Work this out for yourself. After a Reverse Turn , Feather Finish. Do a change of direction. The only way you will stay on the correct beat is to do the above.. Natural Turn also the same unless you want to dance the first of your Feather on beats 3 4. If you wished, after the Change of direction you wanted to do a Curving Three Step. You would then need 1 2 on the man's LF. (your right ). The same for a Double Reverse Spin or even an Open Telemark. See if you can figure these things out for yourself. If you can you will have aquired more knowledge than those that are around you. Your coach may be more knowledgable than you think.

Dear Don, I reviewed my post and read this post. I said my coach did use his left foot on 1 . q . Did not use his left foot on previous 4 . So, there is 4 q for preparatory step + feather in one bar. Is it a new trend ?! or new rule ?
I did not know why, feather written by Guy Howard have 3 step , SQQ , RLR in one Bar; by Alex Moore 4 steps, RLRL,SQQS. 1+ 1/2 bars.
So , the first step of feather in man is RF. 2 beat. S.
A walk , preparotary step using left foot can not start on 1. Marcus lesson DVD clearly showed their relationship .
Last night , we have lesson, he entered on 3. He counted S, but the time value like q. Maybe we were on beats, but off music accents. I concentrated to my body weight speed and created longer stride , whick let me feel less panic. He is my coach, I am not sure whether or not or when to discuss with him. Maybe, just like the couple, ignore it at all?
Just focus to single event not person , how good it is ?!
I tried to understand the below : reverse turn ( Sqq , one bar) feather finish ( sqq, one bar, ) change of direction ( SSS, 1&1/2 bar ) if followed by feather , the RF S , 1/2 bar, the qq into new 1/2 bar. beat 3 is second accent. acceptable. or add 2 step ( qq, 3 4 )forward after change of direction , then followed by feather ( sqq 1234 ).or curved 3 step ( Sqq, S on my right foot )
Double reverse spin SSQQ occupy 1 & 1/2, the result similar as change of direction, my solution is S& qq, 1 bar, or add 2 q . obtain full bar , or accept S in 3 4. Open Telemark, SQQ , one full bar . same as all full bar figures . making no problem. Is it what you want me understand ? Correct me continuously.Thanks.
I had a problem last night. following my coach Ronde, I should let my RL to have high circle from front to my back. I asked him can I let my head gradually trun right and right hip with my right leg ,keeping my BW weight on left foot toward him, counting 1 2 ,not 1 &, slowly circleing with his left leg. I felt big pressure from his right side , and off balance , malformed. What is the correct time , rhythm , and my left foot position ? ( behing his right foot ? infront his right foot , side and sl back to my right foot ? or ?? ) How to get well balance in sugh high Ronde ? Keeping both spines facing each other in most of figurs is important to dance together easily. Separated upper and lower part may need in particular situation. I have such thought , but still not matured. I need more samples. Open hip in particular figure if no bronken shoulder , may be acceptable. But my coach said no. I suggested to slow down the speed, to see what my problem is , he said , solve it later . But this question is disturbing me.

Yichen. As an excercise in timing. Get your book out and look at the timing of a Change of Direction. You will find it is down as S S S. If after the Change of Direction you are going to do a Feather Step you will need another slow to stay in rhythm. If you are going to do a Contre Check you will NOT need another S, neither will you for any step that starts on the beat, with the music, of 1 2 which is one slow. As written before instead of standing still for four slows which is far too long you could use four quicks. So the whole Change of Direction and the Feather Step would be counted as S S Q Q Q Q. which is with the music
1 2. 3 4. 1 2 3 4. This rule stays throughout your dancing. For instance if you are doing a Open Telemark and you find that the music is playing 1 2 3 4. and you are dancing 3 4. 1 2 . then something is not right. No top competitor would dance like that. Understand this and you will know more than a lot of the teachers.

"1 2. 3 4. 1 2 3 4. This rule stays throughout your dancing. For instance if you are doing a Open Telemark and you find that the music is playing 1 2 3 4. and you are dancing 3 4. 1 2 . then something is not right. No top competitor would dance like that."

Don, no top musician would confine herself to such simple phrasing.

It is perfectly fine to dance the occasional piece of a phrase across a bar line of the music, provided that it is done with knowledge, intent and appropriate inflection, and has an appropriate conclusion.

Measure aligned dancing has one feel, cross-bar dancing has another, and a skilled dancer will make judicious use of both.

Dear Don,
On book , change direction occupied 1and 1/2 bar, sss. Can variation present , ss one bar ?
I will add 2 forward step before the following feather . SS /S qq/ s qq .
or outside swivle , SS/S& S ( 1.5+ 0.5 +2 ) , running feather...
I did not understand why open telemark will fall into 3412 unmatched the music 1234 if my first step arrived on 1 ?
Rubato is allowed if the dancer has good reason and ability to dance with the rhythm again after that . Sometime , I prefer to dance chasse from PP out of 12&3 , I prolonged the 2, shorten the 3 , finished it in 1 bar. I said that because of that I believed variation is needed for art development . people is dancing in his/her mood also. I even thought why triplet or Xplet or more other change can't be added into our dance rhythm? such as in Tango, syncopated chasse, q&Q , 1/2,1/2/1 sounds more like triplet. 1/3,1/3/1/3 =1 ; ligature used across the bar. I thought , why I can't dance with the main melody ignoring the rhythm ? It will be more interesting . Of course , it happened when I was dancing on my self.
ylchen