"Anonymous. I never comment on anything unless I have resarched it. The lady on a Spin Turn doesn't rise untill the end of the fifth step. From the end of the third she is down untill the end of the fifth. I'm not sure what you mean by a foot closure. You must mean when the feet are together at the end of three and the lady has lowered. So the point we are stuck on is step four. On a pivot or a pivoting action or a type of pivot we stay down. There is no lowering or rising from steps three to the end of five."

My comment referrred specifically to the rather difficult task of creating a full forward, progressive lowering from the foot closure position in which the lady finds herself midway through step three. Regardless if the next step will be 4 of a spin turn or 4 of the remainder of the natural, she will need to project her body strongly forward as her knees bend to complete the lowering. In contrast, men today almost never dance this action forwards, as 1 of the natural turn is usually commenced from a prep step rather than a lowering form foot closure. It's hard enough to do right that this action has almost vanished from today's dancing - the one place it remains is the end of that first half natural, and the challenge is given to the lady.

On a seperate topic though, step four of the spin turn is not quite a true, pure pivot even in the book. And in actual practice, it is danced much more like step four of a natural than it is written - the pivoting action is quite minimized, and there actually is the beginning of a hint of rise, though not necessarily enough that it would be written down if the book were to be rewritten today.

Anoymous. The book was rewritten only a couple of years ago. There is still no rise on four.

"Anoymous. The book was rewritten only a couple of years ago. There is still no rise on four."

The revisions have most likely never been sufficient to match what was being danced when they were made.

However, that is beside the point. Please re-read exactly what I said:

"and there actually is the beginning of a hint of rise, though not necessarily enough that it would be written down if the book were to be rewritten today."

There is an element of rise, but it is small enough and of a sort not usually mentioned in the book - so even if you were to update the book to current practice, you would not mention it. But that doesn't mean it itsn't there. Same thing goes for the last step of a feather when it begins the action of a three step. Officially nothing that warrants mentions as rise - but practically speaking there is some sort of growing there, but not quite what we label rise.

Anonymous. The spin or the pivot on the Spin Turn never had rise or ever will. The man is down and so is the lady. Please don't generalise when giving comments. I have no idea what is taught where you live but here the men know exactly and are taught correctly how to step forward or backward. Leg goes first keeping weight to the partner before pushing and sending the body into a mid balanced position with two straight legs..

"Anonymous. The spin or the pivot on the Spin Turn never had rise or ever will. The man is down and so is the lady."

It has rise in the same sense that the beginning of step 1 has fall. Although not written in the book, the reality is that the body looses altitude at the mid-stride position into a step 1 action. In the case of the spin turn, there is a loss of altitude into the step 4, which is not written in the book, and then during step 4 that altitude is regained - step 5 starts from something more of a normal standing altitude than the extremely lowered position we find preceding each driving step. So what we have is an unwritten "rise" to undo the unwritten "fall".

"I have no idea what is taught where you live but here the men know exactly and are taught correctly how to step forward or backward. Leg goes first keeping weight to the partner before pushing and sending the body into a mid balanced position with two straight legs.."

Apparently wherever you are, they are taught WRONG then.

Anonymous. When moving Backward the leg moves first. Tell me any teacher who teaches or demonstrates any other way. I would ask anybody to take a couple of paces backward. Balanced when you start and balanced when you arrive. Anybody who disagrees and think that the body goes first pick yourself off the floor and write in.

"Anonymous. When moving Backward the leg moves first."

Not really. There is a small pre-positioning of the foot from below the knee, but the real movement of the leg occurs only as the body is moving, in response to the body movement. Reaching it back is tango technique and a severe mistake in any of the other dances!

Anonymous. Exactly what did I say.The leg, foot, that's the thing at the bottom of the leg goes first.
You said. There is a small pre positioning of the foot, then the leg goes back. Well. Thats a bit different to what you said in the past is'it not.
How about when you wrote. The moving leg does not extend behond the body.
Have you thought what will happen to the lady when you thrust yourself to the point of imbalance.
Your answer. Not only that, I insist on it.
You should fall past your standing foot .You wrote that just recently on the 10.17th.
Instead of turning completely around. Wouldn't it be better if you said. I was wrong. I have learnt and I now beleive the foot goes before the body just like it does when we walk. The legs carry the body. Not the body carries the legs.
For those who are just tuned in. Dancing is an exagerated walk. The main difference is we bend the knee and drive off the standing foot and send our weight over the moving foot on which the knee will bend as the body arrives. I think we do this when we are going up a slope. Drive your centre which is your spine. Just don't thrust the leg out like a goose step nobody would do that when they walk , so dont do it when you dance.

"Wouldn't it be better if you said. I was wrong. I have learnt and I now beleive the foot goes before the body just like it does when we walk. The legs carry the body. Not the body carries the legs."

No - the pre-positioning of the foot from below the knee only is not significant to its overall movement. It is important as a position, but not as a componenet of movement. The movement of the leg comes only in response to the body movement - which was my original argument and objection to your comment that the leg should go first.

"For those who are just tuned in. Dancing is an exagerated walk. The main difference is we bend the knee and drive off the standing foot and send our weight over the moving foot"

If you send your weight over your moving foot, you are sending it into imbalance - which is what I have been arguing all along is proper!

"Just don't thrust the leg out like a goose step nobody would do that when they walk , so dont do it when you dance."

Which is exactly my point - the leg swings only in response to the body movement, not before.

Anonymous. The pre- positionig is not from just below the knee. The positioning of the foot is not like a stop. In the Waltz step four Natural Turn. As the foot lowers on (and) the foot moves with the lowering and is seamless. If starting from a standing still position. The foot will be comfortably behind on the toe the knee will be flexed and ready to move on one. The person in front will have the feet together RF poised ready to go.