"But she is applying Rumba technique to a Waltz. On your own, . feet apart, as she said about shoulder width."

Quickstep, she was watching better dancers than you can ever dream of being.

For the record, the feet *are* shoulder width apart in waltz pivots - but they are still seperated front-back relative to themselves. Even though they are apart sideways relative to the body, they are still inline relative to themselves.

Technically you can call this CBMP... though I'd say it's stretching the definition far enough I can't agree it was wise to document it that way.

Lets go to a model.Put a ruler on the table. With the finger keeping one side still turn the other side one half a turn and repeat.The two sides of the ruler are your feet. You would never do a Pivots in the Waltz like that. With that there is no CBMP at all. With a Pivot as in Modern one foot is held in front of the other making it a forward movement. In a turn with the feet in second position it is a sideway movement . No CBM. No twisting of the body. Just turn. This is worse than teaching school.

"With a Pivot as in Modern one foot is held in front of the other"

Yes, but the body must lag the feet in the turn, meaning that the seperation of the feet, while forward and back relative to the feet, is substantially SIDEWAYS RELATIVE TO THE BODY.

If your body catches up to your feet, the turn will stop. In fact, that's usually part of how you intentionally stop it on the last pivot (rise being another commen technique - often used together, turning the last pivot into a spin turn action)

Normal Pivots in the Standard style require that the front and the back foot be kept in CBMP. I seem to remember that you said that in a Spin Turn you didn't Pivot with CBMP, you stepped around. Was that a correct quote. Would that create the sideway step you mentioned, that you seem to think exists.

"Normal Pivots in the Standard style require that the front and the back foot be kept in CBMP."

Yes, but what is CBMP, literally? It is a foot position - it says nothing about the orientation of the body relative to the feet. Customarily, in the classic outside partner and promenade usages of CBMP, there's definitaly an associated opposite-side-lead position of the body. But not in pivot... in fact there is the opposite of that, a same-side lead.

"I seem to remember that you said that in a Spin Turn you didn't Pivot with CBMP, you stepped around. Was that a correct quote. Would that create the sideway step you mentioned, that you seem to think exists."

The action of a spin turn is not very much like that of the completed pivot you would dance if you were going to follow it with another pivot, or a true fowards man/backwards lady step (cf. running right turn). Instead, it's something between a pivot and an ordinary pointing alignment such as seen in the back half of a plain natural.

If you were - as we often do - to dance a series of pivots ending in a spin turn, there'd be a change of technique in the last - instead of holding the kind of same-side lead that sustains the rotation, the shoulders would be allowed to swing through into an opposite side lead.

The action of a Pivot for the man in a Spin Turn is a Pivot. Once you have turned over the ball of the LF. one half of a turn your Pivot is finished and you are facing the LOD. If this had been from Position Two which is a ballet term, you would be sideways and that we are not. Just lets not forget the original thread. Which for your benifit was. What I see is a continuouse spin in second position.
Anonymous. Don't tell me that you do your Pivots in Standard from Second Position Ballet. Yes or No.

"The action of a Pivot for the man in a Spin Turn is a Pivot."

Not in the sense that "pivots" are pivots it isn't. It sort of has elements of one, but there is a really key difference - the action on step 4 of a spin turn absorbs and ends the rotation by rotating the body beyonds the feet.

In actual pivots, the body trails the foot in rotation.

The most obvious clue to the difference though is in the lady's footwork: HT in a spin turn, HTH in a genuine pivot.

"Once you have turned over the ball of the LF. one half of a turn your Pivot is finished and you are facing the LOD. If this had been from Position Two which is a ballet term, you would be sideways and that we are not."

Actually you are still substntially sideways. The lady will feel her movement towards step two as even still being largely a forwards swing - again, see the difference in her footwork for this vs. a pivot where she actually moves backwards after completing a half turn.

"Anonymous. Don't tell me that you do your Pivots in Standard from Second Position Ballet. Yes or N"

My BODY is in something akin to second position, but my feet are inline with each other in CBMP.

There is no single yes or no answer, because you've asked a multi-part question.

Anonymous. Do you know how to keep your foot in CBMP. There is no sideway movement in a Standard Pivot.. In Latin there is.

"Anonymous. Do you know how to keep your foot in CBMP."

Yes. But the critical distinction is that while the foot is in CBMP, the body is not in the position it would have with more typical (outside partner/promenade) CBMP actions. It is only the foot that is in CBMP, NOT THE BODY.

"There is no sideway movement in a Standard Pivot.. In Latin there is."

The movement is not sideways to the feet, therefore it is not officially sideways.

However, because of the undertruned orientation of the body relative to the feet, the movement will be sideways RELATIVE TO THE BODY. That is not what counts when writing technical descriptions - but it must be recognized if we wish to reconcline what observers see with the formal description of what is being done.

What exactly do you mean it is only the foot that is in CBMP and not the body. Without the body there is no CBMP. No wonder you are stepping around.