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+ View Older Messages

Re: There the Same.
Posted by Anonymous
5/7/2007  10:01:00 PM
"At this moment flicking through the pages on the description of the footwok I haven't found one that is not down as H.T. except in the Tango."

Look at the one preceding the three step. Also the RF step given as a common precede for the rumba cross.

And don't forget the action by which you will depart the ubiquitous forward TH steps - which are after all a much more common case than the heel-only step.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by N.Q.
5/7/2007  10:38:00 PM
At a guess and knowing that they were not stupid. I would say the step preceading the Three Step might not become a Three Step. It might be a Change of Direction. I can understand also a Rumba Cross being a H. The one I do starts the Rumba Cross with the left foot on a Heel coming from a TH.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by Anonymous
5/8/2007  8:31:00 AM
"At a guess and knowing that they were not stupid. I would say the step preceading the Three Step might not become a Three Step."

Of course not. But if it does become the step preceding a three step, this first heel lead is Heel (only) with no rise, while the second heel lead - the one document in the three step itself, is Heel-toe, with rise.

Or look at a chasse in waltz or quickstep. Last step is given Heel (only), outside partner in CBMP. Quite often this would also become the first step of a natural turn, in which case the fact that it's the first step of a natural turn with rise changes the footwork to HT, while the fact that it's also the last step of the chasse keeps the action outside partner in CBMP. On the other hand, we could dance a double reverse spin or a quick open reverse instead. In those cases, the last step of the chasse would be only the last step of the chasse and performed as written - Heel (only). It would then be followed by the first step of the DRS or QOR, danced HT.

So you see, there are heel leads that don't rise, are coded (Heel) only, and see the heel come up late - and would ordinarily be followed by a second heel lead. And then there are the more common heel leads which are coded HT, do rise in at least some respects, and see the heel come up early.

And finally, there's what's documented in the book for the walking EXERCISE, which is somewhat in between, with the heel rising exactly as the feet pass.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by Quickstep.
5/8/2007  6:01:00 PM
H.HT. Keeping the thread short. I would imagine that after the step has been taken we are finished with any further reference to it. Therefore on a heel the heel stays down untill the step is gone. On a HT it doesn't.Who cares anyway.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by anymouse
5/8/2007  9:44:00 PM
"H.HT. Keeping the thread short. I would imagine that after the step has been taken we are finished with any further reference to it. Therefore on a heel the heel stays down untill the step is gone."

Yes, or if dancing with modern degree of lowering in the previous action you would still be quite down at this point, which would probably keep your heel down quite a ways into the next step. Of course it will rise before the new heel strikes. The teacher who taught me about this whole area of the technique - someone you frequently cite (though often misleadingly) refers to it as the only one heel at a time rule.

"On a HT it doesn't."

Exactly

"Who cares anyway."

You apparently cared about it yesterday when you were trying to argue against it...

Why care about techinque at all? Well, because if you did it right you would ultimately be a better dancer. True, technique is no substitute for putting your heart into it. But then energy with no finesse is only fun to watch for so long, too.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by Quickstep.
5/9/2007  3:43:00 PM
If it is in the book which has stood since the book was published on 1936 then I didn't argue against it. Prior to 1936 there were already many papers and pamphlets on how the steps should be done dating back to before Victor Silvester introduced the Natural Turn.
In 1910 Waltz music was supreme, the old Rotary Waltz was fighting for its life and a fiece battle was raging between the old stagers and the younger generation of those days how the music should be interpreted by the dancers.
Very interesting. In 1918 the Waltz took a dive and was seldom played at dances. Many dancers used Foxtrot Steps to a Waltz tune.
In 1922 Maxwell Stewert introduced the Double Reverse Spin,and in the same year saw the end of the Cross Behind step in the Foxtrot and the Feather Step was born.
I have put these statments in for the benifit of those who seem to think a technque book is some sort of burden. If it hadn't been for books like this we possibly wouldn't be dancing as we do today.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by anymouse
5/9/2007  7:24:00 PM
"If it is in the book which has stood since the book was published on 1936 then I didn't argue against it. "

But you did indeed argue against it. Just two days ago, you were arguing that the heel had to rise at the end of the step, no earlier and no later, on all heel leads.

Now you realize that the book actually gives you two different actions for two different heel lead footworks.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by Quicksteps
5/9/2007  10:43:00 PM
It doesn' t matter if it is going to be another heel or a toe
Going to a TH from a T is different. Going from a TH to a H the action remains. Very hard to do but never the less.
So where are there three different forward steps and on what pages.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by Anonymous
5/10/2007  7:18:00 AM
"Going from a TH to a H the action remains."

The most common difference is this:

Going from a TH towards a H, the standing heel WILL NOT RISE UNTIL *AFTER* the feet pass.

Going from a HT towards a T, the standing heel will RISE BEFORE THE FEET PASS.

Going from HT towards HT, with zero rise and fall and at a medium altitude - in other words, doing the walk written in the book, the HEEL WILL RISE EXACTLY AS THE FEET PASS.
Re: There the Same.
Posted by Q.
5/10/2007  7:29:00 PM
Stop trying to making the writting fit your steps, it will never work.
Going from a heel to a heel lead. The heel of the passing foot will be past the toe of the standing foot before the heel of the sanding foot leaves the floor.
As it is written. Quote page 9. As the RF passes the toe of the LF.
The way you have written going from a HT to a T you are incorrectly rising on the step and not the end of the step. Try it both ways. You will soon realise which one is correct.
To sum up. Two of your comments are as I have been trying to instill into you from way back. This time you have only one wrong. Well actually that is not exactly right. In your last paragraph you are lifting your heel from the floor too early. Stay on the standing leg longer. The foot has past.
There is no need to change the action of the step whether it be a H. H. or H to a Toe.

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