I was dancing with a friend recently. Dancing an 'old-time waltz' which is like a viennese waltz to a slower tempo (165 Beats per minute)
On her forward step (beat 1)into the natural turn she dropped suddenly by about 3 or 4 inches. It was very noticeable. 'Suddenly' means within about 1/3 of a beat.
Interestingly, on the reverse turns, this didn't happen at all. In fact the reverse turns were super, and we moved with good body flight.
Later, i watched her dancing with another guy to see if i could spot the reason for this. She was 'reaching' out with her right foot into the natural turn, and sitting a little. I think she had to sit a little to allow the foot to reach out. This stopped the smooth movement of her body. On the reverses, she took a noticeably shorter step (probably because the man is more 'in her path' on the reverses). And yet in spite of the shorter step, the body flight was better in every respect, as i'd discovered.
I learnt something that night. I learnt that good body flight isn't JUST about going for long steps. It's about controlling the body so that it moves through the standing foot. Then later maybe you can add the long steps. (I know...I know - i should have known this all along. But there's nothing like actually experiencing a problem and seeing the cause in front of you.
Remember what they say: "Tell me and i may forget, show me and i may remember, involve me and i will understand").

Phil. Could it be that the good lady thinks that beat one is a down step. She should be down before beat one and rise at the end of one. There is very slightly different to the rise and fall in the Modern Waltz. So the technique book says.
Everything depends on the correct technique. One technical error produces another and so on.

The Old Time waltz is totally different from both the modern and the Viennese waltz, and has its own technique. It is a rotary dance which happens to travel around the room as each partner in turn moves around and past a "stationary" partner.

Your lady should not have been able to take a long step on 1. It should be a small step between partners feet as the partner steps across the LOD and partner.
Step 2 is the longest step where the travel is made.

AFAIK the books do not mention rise and fall. Certainly a rise at the end of 1 does not seem appropriate because at that time the partner will be lowering into bent knees ready to cross behind and pivot.

BTW, I think you may be dancing a little quick. I would put the normal tempo as 140-150 bpm.

Hi socialdancer
I'm assuming you're not from Ireland, as 140-150 would be unacceptably slow for the old-time waltz here.
Why would she not be able to take a long step on 1?

No, I'm in England. All my Old Time technique books are rather old now (I don't think anyone has produced a recent one) but the Championship tempo quoted for 1950 was 48 bars or 144 bpm, and in 1995 it was apparently down to 42 or 126 bpm.

As for the length of step 1, one book describes as "a short step" and another mentions "step 1 is not a long step".

As she is stepping between her partner's feet while he is stepping across in front of her a long step might prove painful.

Interesting to hear that you are dancing Old Time waltz as a stand alone dance. I generally only see it as a few bars at the end of other Old Time (Classical) dances. Are you dancing in a social situation or in a school?

"The Old Time waltz is totally different from both the modern and the Viennese waltz, and has its own technique. It is a rotary dance which happens to travel around the room as each partner in turn moves around and past a "stationary" partner....AFAIK the books do not mention rise and fall. Certainly a rise at the end of 1 does not seem appropriate because at that time the partner will be lowering into bent knees ready to cross behind and pivot."

These are the key observations!

While ballroom technique may be a "better" way to move, it is not universally appropriate to all partner dances. Where the context of a different dance form has explicitly been mentioned, people need to keep that in mind before assuming that ballroom methods apply.

Hi Social_dancer
I'm intruiged by the reference to a technique book and the slow tempo.
In Ireland, the 'old-time waltz' is danced by pretty well every social dancer. There are 'fun' comppetitions. It's very similar to Viennese waltz except for the tempo (which is 155 - 170ish), and there is no viennese cross on reverse turns (and no fleckerls). As in Viennese, it's easily possible for the lady to make a long step forward without decapitating her partner.
I really wasn't aware of the English version of the dance.
But, to be honest, this discussion about old-time waltz tempos etc is peripheral to the main point i was making.

OK, we are talking about two very different dances. I guess I would probably describe yours as a "social viennese".

The one I have in mind each partner in turn pivoting on the spot while the other moves around them. Man and ladies steps are the same but in antiphase, one bar rotary - one bar progressive.

You may see it at the end of something like a St Bernard Waltz but most social dancers do a chasse/polka and struggle to get round twice in four bars.

However, as you say, your initial observation applies for almost any dance.