Terence 2. That's Salsa you are writting about. The 4 and the 8 are silent. I think it is easier counting that way because 4 and 8 are not steps, but a Latin Motion. There are many Professionals who teach in the International Latin Style who do not count beat one in the Rumba. The count being 2 3 4 2 3 4.
Move the hip on the blank space. Or if you like count , I don't. Q Q S Have Fun.

Should have made my point clearer--

they tend to count most dances , the same way-- ( usually, the ones who are not trained ) and of course -- i do count Rhumba numerically as well as E coast swing.etc. ( have been teaching mambo / salsa since '59 ) and use combinations of " count " , when appropriate .

The example of chapters of a book is right. (The smallest unit of phrasing are two bars. So listening to a normal song you should always hear a "heavy" bar followed by a lighter one. And so there are musical sequences of four, eigth, sixteen ... 2^n bars - until the song is finished.)
And this has consequences as you dance figures and you want to emphasize a special part of your sequence. Then these steps should lay on a first bar of eight (or at least of four).
Let's take a Waltz example (no. of the bar in "[ ]"):
1-3 Nat. Turn [1] with an underturned Nat. Spin [2], 4-6 Rev. Turn ended facing DC [3] - now any following reverse figure would lay on the un-accentuated "light" bar no. 4. That could be ok, but think about the situation that right now your best figure, your choreographic highlight, would come (let it be a Double Rev. Spin). So how to shift it away from that boring bar no 4 to the better one of no 5? We need a starting sequence with 4 bars instead of 3! At that point the choreographer knows a figure with an "And"-count is needed (or a hesitation) and so we can find an appropriate introduction: e.g. 1-3 underturned Nat. Turn [1] with an Outside Change [2], 1-3 Nat. Turn [3] with a Nat. Spin [4] immediately followed by a Rev. Pivot ["and"] - and so our super douper Double Rev. Spin is placed on our beloved bar no 5. - That means phrasing (in relation to choreography)

German Teacher. Great stuff. The trouble is to understand what you have written a person would already have to know about phrasing. I know for a fact there are many teaching professionals who haven't got a clue about this subject. It could be written what a stuff up comes in 4/4 time with the phrasing if the wrong beat is danced on e.g. 3 4 1 2.

I was taught to use phrasing in dance by my ballet teacher in 1965. Since then I have worked with the same concept of phrasing discussed here (4/8/16/etc.)when doing choreography for floor and rhythmic gymnastics, ballet, tap, Even Choreography for exercise classes. The more advanced the choreography the more important the phrasing. No matter how much I like the music if it has odd phrasing, throw it out or have it remixed by a pro. "Charting the music" identifies your phrasing. Do it correctly once and you rarely have to stop to rework beats to steps. It's a Miracle! Here's how: Chart by sections. The sections are the way the music was written. For example, Your sections could be 1 - Intro., 2- instrumental, 3- first verse, 4- 2nd verse, 5 - chorus, 6 - 3rd verse, etc. etc. Watch for instrumental breaks or pauses they are sections and often have odd counts. Now you get paper set up with the sections in a column along the left side of page, 1 section every few lines. Listen carefully to the music and count by 8's,(or 4's if that suits your chor. better). Mark how many bars of 8 are in each section. I just use a check which i know = 8. Note/circle any special sections or beats in a section where you want a pose or dramatic start on the 1, etc. That is it. Good Luck. I have used this for years and it has made my work much easier.

Terence2. Just about every lecture by a visiting professional in the Foxtrot that I have attended recently start the introduction step on one beat which is the eighth beat. Just as you mentioned like the stage choeographers with a count of 5. 6. 7. 8. We stepped off on 8 LF.
Quickstep is counted the same way. With the Foxtrot. I think some confussion is created because some people are so used to using two beats on the introduction step. It doesn't register with them that they are watching a quick. Familiarity breeds contempt.

"Quickstep is counted the same way. With the Foxtrot. I think some confussion is created because some people are so used to using two beats on the introduction step. It doesn't register with them that they are watching a quick."

Actually the preparation step in quickstep should probably be a slow.

Examine common figures that can precede typical quickstep starting figures - most of them have you taking a slow to end the old figure, and then a slow to begin the new one.

Remember that a prep step is nothing more than the ending of a preceding figure you didn't dance. You actually start the dance just before the end of this non-existent figure, and finish it (prep step) which leads naturally into the desired starting figure, precisly the same kind of precede-follow relationship you have in the middle of the dance.

Terence2. Once this ball starts rolling one thing leads to another and we get side tracked. In the Quickstep is a perfect example how starting with a Quarter Turn Progressive Chasse followed by a Lock Step. You will be dancing on the wrong beat. in time but out of rhythm. Much better to start with the Progessive Chasse. Unless some adjustment is made i.e. Two Locks instead of one.
A good lesson can be learnt by watching Crossley on the 06 tape in the Foxtrot. How many would have noticed that on bar 33 he enters a Feather Step with a quick on the LF and all quicks from then on. He is also dead on phrase as well as rhythm. This is not an accident. I stole the expression. " In time but out of ryhthm ". from John Wood on his tape, he has a few words to say on this subject.

Yes, am more than well aware of the "out of rhythm " syndrome .


One could apply many instances where "things " are in mid phrase,
eg. -- in tango- closed prom , 6 beats, nat. pivot turn-- 6 beats , in isolation .-- but , as we all know, one has to look at the " big " picture in dance .


have seen and heard this same " argument " ? ,for a hundred yrs . The accomplished dancer should be able to correct, in , flight, any anomalies that may occur thru what ever means ( step construction, musical arrangements )
Saw Jo Bradley go thru the same subject many yrs back . I,m sure, most trained prof. are cognisant of the pitfalls that are well documented .
I guess one could go on for days pointing out anomalies in dance . The moment one "applies " art to a scientific exercise . ya just know some things are going to change !

Terence2. I can't uderstand why a dance teacher in a studio teaching a Tango would play a 4/4 Tango and teach Two Walks and a Progressive Side Step. Already we would be out of rhythm unless we waste two beats with a head flick, or just stand still for two beats.