APPLAUSE

I started at AM. Didn't like their high pressure sales tactics. It wasn't uncommon to sign up students on $10,000 contracts for 100 lessons. I regret that I took part in getting some students to sign large contracts that they couldn't really afford.

I went independent, but will admit that I use most of what I learned about dancing (the steps) from AM to teach my students. Although the AM training that I received on styling and technique was weak.

When I was a teacher at AM, I received little outside training from the Pros that would come to visit for private coachings. We did have different Pros that would come about once every 2 months. Signing up of competition students and long term AM teachers for lessons with the Pros took priority over newly trained AM teachers or new students. So I didn't receive any private training from the Pros during my first year of teaching at AM.

It wasn't until I became independent that I was exposed to lots of other Pros, which I was then able to progress much quicker on styling and technique.

For the Amat among you, there are 2 options for you if you live in the states ( and in some foreign countries ) Chain and Indies.

Chains, train for free, with contractual obligations-- Indies--YOU pay for training .

The quality, depends on the area in which you live, and the genre in which you wish to qualify .

Ive personally trained hundreds of chain school teachers ( as well as Indies ), and your point about visiting pros, is not the same in all schools. I always managed to work with the newer staff on my visits ( I usually asked for it )

I would concede, however, that the majority of trainees are not given adequate training initially, beyond an Interm. bronze level.
Many yrs ago, dance training was on a daily basis .
Some larger schools still have that regimen .- smaller schools,do not have the facility for that ,on a regular basis .

What really amazes me ?-- how the American teacher resents ( chain school )paying for his own training .
When I began coaching in the states ,many yrs ago , it was very rare if any teacher asked for private
lessons.
The notable exception-- 2 couples in a large chain, took with me on a regular basis-- both went on to be US champions ( and one was 3rd in the world )they had passed on from my hands by that time .

terence2

Not all training is free in the chain school. I only received free training from the other instructors employed in the studio at AM. When ever we had a visiting Pro for private coachings, we had to pay for the training if it was for one on one privates or if I was paired up with another instructor. The only exception is that when your student signed up for one of these private coachings with a visiting Pro, the students paid for the lesson and I just stood in as their partner while the Pro observed us dancing together. But the coaching by the Pro was mainly focused on the students.

Occasionally, the owner would pay for a lecture by the visiting Pro (musicology, so forth) for the instructors. But the owner never paid for the instructors to have one on one privates with a visiting Pro. You stated that it was rare for teachers to ask for private lessons, it because not all of us can afford to since we had to pay for the lessons.

Training for instructors (beyond the 8 week or however long they promised) at chains school is not really practicable. Sure everyone says they work as a team and will help each other out, but when it comes down to it there's almost always some obstacle, ie. lack of time from the head instructor, scheduling conflicts, differences in goals, etc. Beyond that 8 weeks, there is no mandate for the more experienced and advance instructors to train the rookies to dance better. What training the rookies will get would be more focused on selling their services. If the rookies wanted to get more dance training they have to either talk their current students into buying coaching lessons from visiting couches or pay for lessons from the coaches themselves. And most of them won't make that monetary investments since they don't make enough $$$ and their prospect is uncertain.

Apparently you don't train at a good AM. We have a practice session alloted with the top teacher every day. We work before and after work many days. We have many traveling world renowned coaches at least once a month, which the teachers have at least two training sessions with, and many of us pay to do extra coachings before and after work.
We don't have to talk students into coachings, they want to. We just offer the opportunity, all this just dance training.
And as "sales" training goes, there is none, just how to be the best teacher possible and to give the students what they want. If that is sales, then every teacher in the world in every field with training is really good at "sales"
As to chains not learning and teaching technique, that's just stupid.
None of us teachers care about money any more or less than any other person trying to pay the rent, because we love to dance and teach dance.
To other posts, yes chains have accountability, more than many independents, we are constantly (at least 4 times a year) checked for quality of dancing, teaching, and competition fairness. We just had Nick Kosovich at our studio doing just that. We also have multi studio training weekends at least twice a year by top end professionals, such at Nick and Lena, Lola Volair, etc. All world champions outside of the AM world as well.
Every single blanket comment I have heard negative about chains is false except in certain circumstances. Isn't that true for all studios though?
Last, if we can't accomodate a students needs then we will happily recommend another studio that can. I have never heard animosity from any AM teacher towards independents, only the other way around.
The big question is why, what are they scared of, let's all just teach dance to all the different kinds of people, why do some of you not want everyone to dance, at whatever studio makes them happy. So have fun dancing wherever works for you, shop around, be competitive or dance socially, just everybody dance and have fun. Quit the ignorance.

As you implied in your first sentence, there are good AMs and "not-so-good" AMs, for both teachers and students. (They same is true for independents, of course.) You're lucky to be at one of the good ones. But those reporting other kinds of experiences at AMs are not ignorant--in most cases, they are reporting their own personal experience.

You must have come across an unusual situation--

I coached and taught for chains for over 30 yrs, allover the states and with both name brands-- staff NEVER paid for training-- only if they requested a private lesson with me ( which did happen, but very rare )

As i stated -- small schools cannot always support a full time training schedule ( I always, in my schools, chain or indie-- did )

I started at a "non-profit" ballroom dance society which followed ISTD. I've never been involved with a chain.

The Society costs less than half the chains, doesn't require contracts and employs ISTD or CDTA certified teachers or student teachers under the supervision of a certified examiner. (I'd have had my Associateship years ago but for a car crash that left me with major whiplash. It's coming around now so I'm aiming at late October or November).

In my own situation I'm an ST under the supervision of an ISTD examiner (Former NZ champ & 7 times judge at the World Championships). We're a bit isolated here on Vancouver Island but I take every opportunity to take inservice (at my cost) with top professionals. Recently/currently with a former US National Open Smooth Champ). What I learn from them makes me more saleable to students.

As for the chains: There are good and poor just as there are good and poor independents.

Because of the high overhead for chains I think it entirely reasonable to charge more.

At the same time I think the consumer, paying double, has the right to expect and enquire whether they are getting the highest qualified instructor. Certainly there's a difference between a beginning instructor with years of dance experience and an instructor with little experience and an 8 week training course.

Terr,

BTW: Are you aware of any ISTD examiners in your area and how I might contact one? I'm getting nowhere contacting USISTD or USDA.

Thanks,

OB

amteacher. I dont mean to be picky here. But I keep reading from different sources, you are only one among many who throw these claims about world champion teachers. Those you mentioned have never been world champions and would be embarressed by this claim. The person you mentioned and his sister have been Australian champions dancing with other partners and are both world class teachers with years as competitors. But to me to claim that this or that person is a world champion, they must have won a World Championship. In Modern since 1950 there have only been 56 couples who can claim to have been a World Champion. Many of those are no longer with us. My apologies but we must stick to facts.
To add a bit more. Very often , to back up a statment made we get the person who throws in I have been dancing or teaching for years, which to them means they must be right. Once upon a time we used to have a saying. Lets get the violin out and play Tell me the Old Old Story. Sometimes someone sitting in the corner might imitate playing a fiddle.