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Re: Length of Step.
Posted by terence2
3/4/2008  12:10:00 AM
You are probably not old enough to remember when the " pitch " in dance was considerably more fwd.

The current poise made a gradual return to a more upright position at the end of the forties/early fifties .

There are those who still believe it affected the dynamics in progression ( which of course , it did )
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by phil.samways
3/4/2008  2:20:00 AM
Although it's an interesting observation, the comparison with 800 metre running is itself not very good. Dancing isn't continuous movement without changes of direction, rotation etc.
And especially when there's a movement from a fairly static figure(think of open telemark into promenade)there tends to be a forward inclination of the body (by forward in promenade, i mean in the direction of intended travel).
Ask the 800 metre runner if he uses a forward poise at the very start of the race. Guarantee he does.
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by Serendipidy
3/4/2008  2:51:00 AM
Phil. One pace forward as in the first step of the Feather and any simulare step. The Open Telemark is not a good example because it is a step to the side with sway on two and three. Remember the discussion is keeping the balance central on a forward step, anything forward of that will affect the stride pattern. The proof is in the pudding. Try it balanced, then put the weight forward and see how it cuts down the step and the fluidity of the step.What you can see at the beginning of a race is the body instigating the initial first steps. When this is refering to dance look up Forward Walk Alex Moore Page 9 also paragraph 7 on page 13.
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by anymouse
3/4/2008  2:51:00 PM
The real question is not if the comparison to running is valid, the question is if Serendipity's friend is reporting an accurate description of what actually happens in running.

I suspect, based on pictures I've seen, that his friend is not reporting accurately. Instead, he is probably reporting RELATIVELY - for example, to feel that you are more centered doesn't mean that you actually will be centered, it just means that you are trying to be more in one direction than you previously were. It's corrective advice based on where someone was, not absolute advice based on where a measurement of the ideal execution would show them to be.

General human body mechanics puts us closer to our front foot than to our rear one. That's what the measurement would show. Where that feels like is anybody's guess.
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by cdroge
3/4/2008  4:23:00 PM
I have rarely seen any one run with the upright stance of the Scotchman who ran in the movie "The Chariots of Fire"?
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by GermanDanceTeacher
3/5/2008  4:02:00 AM
I can't see how it should be possible to use a heel-footwork (and not doing a VERY small step) with "nose over toes" at the moment the heel touches the floor. Of course the foot is in front of the body. "Nose over toes" may relate to the moment when full weight is over the foot (but what about the haed position.)
ISTD-Ballroom technique: "The Forward Walk ... at the extend of the stride the weight will be equally devided between the heel of the front foot and the ball of the back foot with the front knee straight and the back knee slightly flexed. ..."
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by terence2
3/5/2008  5:52:00 AM
The " nose over toes " mantra, became a fav, saying of many of the Amer.style teachers-- it was primarily used with beginners, for head usage in Prom. positions, and was not meant to be a too literal translation for all and sundry movements .

It did however ,fall into the general lexicon.
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by SmoothGeezer
3/5/2008  7:12:00 AM
I have never heard the "nose over toes" expression until just now, and if I had I would have been very confused. I have heard the expression: "the nose goes where the toes go", meaning pointing in the same direction. This is a considerably different meaning.
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by TrotLikeAFox
3/5/2008  10:07:00 AM
good observation but i think the movements of dance and running a slightly different. with running you're in a constant forward motion. i can see why placing your weight forward would limit your length of step, yet with dance i think the effect would be minimal.
Re: Length of Step.
Posted by ericlund
3/5/2008  10:31:00 AM
There is a difference between too far forward and still having a forward impetus. Balance is one of the keys to athleticism. As one leg moves forward, the other side of the body sways forward to compensate, providing a smooth forward impetus. By using the body instead of pumping the arms, the runner saves a great deal of energy, since less blood needs to be pumped to the extremity of the arms.

However, competitive running has one goal, get to the finish line first. There are no style points.

While we can certainly learn from the athleticism required to run fast and long, one generally doesn't run a race in an embrace with a partner, one of whom has to go backwards. Nor are we judged on how soon we get there, but on how good we look getting there. I would therefore suggest that we look to maintaining balanced movement as the key to a smoother style. Balance promotes control, and control is essential to achieving a specific style.

So, just as the long distance runners body sways relative to the leg movement, so should the dancers. This promotes balanced movement, especially, since the arms cannot be used (that whole frame thing).

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