Phil, I agree that there are aspects of ballroom that must be done with a partner. However, in my limited experience (4 years) with ballroom, and much greater experience with athleticism, I have to say that I still believe that balance is an individual issue.

For the ladies in particular, how many of you spend a good deal of time walking backwards (when not dancing!!!)? When we move, we have our best balance in the things we are familiar with. Trying to learn dance steps and figuring out how to step backwards properly at the same time (while in heels you are not used to) is likely to cause balance issues. The best way to overcome these issues is to break the problem up and develop proficiency in the parts, then start to put them together.

I'm not suggesting that the lady should not continue to dance with her partner, only that she may benefit from working on her own, where she can isolate what is causing her personal balance problem. If she finds that she doesn't have a balance problem at all when working alone, then she has a partnership issue.

In that case, I'd guess it's more likely to be the gentleman's leading technique than any real balance issue.

As far as balance as a pair, I must completely disagree. Each individual must keep their own center. The lady cannot react to her partners lead if she is relying on him to stay vertical.

Phil. There is a danger dancing solo. That is unless we are aware that we cannot tread into the space occupied by a partner. They have to rotate out of our path . That doesn't mean they leave the building. It means that if we stretch our arms out to shoulder height and turn the whole of our side a 1/4 of a turn to the right, our right side hasn't left the building, neither has our partner, but they are no longer standing in the spot on the ballroom floor we need to move into. When this was being discussed in the studio one bright young lady brought with her her little sisters Teddy Bear and sat it on her hip. That Teddy Bear rotated a 1/4 1/2 and Full turns and never once left the hip it was sitting on. The rest of us used our shoe bags. I thought this might be worth mentioning.

Don,
What's with the new name, 'Polished'?

First, can i just point out something - phil and phil samways are two different people.
Here are my thoughts on what i mean by the 'balance of the couple'
Let's take viennese waltz. Try dancing this on your own along a line on the floor. You centre of gravity will stay over the line. If you dance it with your partner, the person moving forward in a natural turn will have to move to the left of the line (and your partner to the right). You can't move with your centre over the line because this would make life impossible for your partner. If the man and lady were equal in size and weight, they would both move equally to the left and right, and the point of contact of the couple (approximately) would move in a straight line. The man's (and lady's) movements have to be different from their movements when dancing on their own.
Another example: fallaway reverse turn. Assume the lady turns her head to her right in the fallaway (this is allowed for artistic interpretation). As she turns her head to the right, her head weight will move. This will affect the balance, and the man must accommodate this. Dancing on his own, the man would not experience this shift of head weight, and therefore his movements would be different. Not a large effect, but important nevertheless.
There is also the little matter of leading. You can simulate this when dancing solo, but it can't be the same as really leading a partner.
Thus, in my view, dancing on your own cannot be the same as dancing with a partner. It's not about holding your partner up, it's about the balance and harmony of the couple as a whole.

"The man's (and lady's) movements have to be different from their movements when dancing on their own."

A skilled dancer would still move in a way that makes allowances for a nominally sized partner, even when they are practicing without one.

Note also that highly skilled dancers know how to move more directly through each other, with a detour that is quite small compared to that initially taken by beginners.

"Another example: fallaway reverse turn. Assume the lady turns her head to her right in the fallaway (this is allowed for artistic interpretation). As she turns her head to the right, her head weight will move. This will affect the balance, and the man must accommodate this. Dancing on his own, the man would not experience this shift of head weight, and therefore his movements would be different. Not a large effect, but important nevertheless."

Actually, you've got it kind of backwards. Her heard should not switch, unless there is an inflection in the movement that suggests it.

If switching her head is disturbing her balance in a way that her partner must compensate for, then she does not yet have the skill to do it that way and needs to first practice it with no head change, so that when the head change is later added it's a change in the direction of a head that is still staying positioned strongly to the left.

Ultimately what is different about dancing solo is the lack of feedback. You do what you think you would would need to do to accommodate a partner, but with no second body there to interact with, you have no physical feedback to tell if what you have done is reasonable for two people, or only workable for one.

If you're moving in a straight line while practicing the Viennese Waltz on your own then you're practicing it incorrectly. When practicing alone, it is as important to work the shoulders as it is to repeat the steps.

The turn of the follow's head should have no effect whatsoever on the lead's balance. If it does then the follow is not maintaining her own balance.

The turn of the head serves more than artistic purposes, however. Doing so properly helps the follow maintain the proper speed of movement in a figure and avoid "rushing" the lead.

I don't believe that anyone in this thread has asserted that practicing alone is the same as practicing with a partner. If the lone dancer does not do his or her best to replicate the moves as they would be performed with a partner then that dancer is not just wasting time but probably developing bad habits as well. No one should try to practice a figure alone unless it has been practiced with a partner (not an instructor!) first.

I'm sorry if it seems that you're being beaten up for what is simply a poor choice of words. It appears that "execution" may have served better.

As far as your ID is concerned, I will address you as "phil.samways" in the future to avoid confusion. No disrespect was intended.

jj

Hi jj
I wasn't upset about the 'phil samways' thing. it's just that i came into this thread reading the latest post, and it started..."phil. there is a danger dancing solo...." and i thought, that's what i was saying. So it confused me a bit. it was the other Phil. PhilS is what they use here at work (instead of PhilB, who is a colleague).
I'm used to people diagreeing with me. but originally i was responding to the post about getting the balance dancing alone as solving the balance problem. I don't think it will. Dheun made an excellent post which sums up my thoughts on the issue. Then of course there was the pressure on the inside/outside of the sole issue (how did that get in here?) but luckily, that discussion petered out.

Hi phil.samways

/* Then of course there was the pressure on the inside/outside of the sole issue (how did that get in here?)*/

Need you ask?

For some reason, I got postes as Phil. I was responding to phil.samways response.

It was not my intent to indicate that dancing along cures all ills. I don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing so. Mostly, I use it to isolate something that is difficult or confusing, where I can get my head around the proper movements.

I do have a perfect example of a pair that needs to be temporarily split up. They are beginners, and they are learning the beginning foxtrot 6 count basic. The gentleman is having a great deal of difficulty with the concept of stepping straight forward (there's that unfortunate circomstance of having someone right in front of him). It's likely that he could benefit greatly from a few times up and down the floor doing the basic without a partner, so he could get the feel for "his part". Then put him back with his partner and see if it helped.

Jofjonsboro. What is this turning the head in the V Waltz. Why don't you leave the head to the left and let it come around with the body. Anybody who wishes to argue about this I would suggest you go to Richard Gleave Dance Vision 4 or any other tape demonstrating the V Waltz, either a Natural or Reverse Turns. You will see the head stays still. This also applies to the lady.