"Anonymouse. There is no difference in a Backward Walk in a Foxtrot or a Backward Walk in the Waltz ."

You won't really find a backward walk of the specific sort described by Alex Moore in either dance.

What you will find are VARIATONS on backwards walks that have been MODIFIED by the addition of RISE, FALL, or a body altitude that is different than the one Moore described.

These changes modify the appropriate technique.

You will never understand dancing as long as you persist in baselessly assuming that a description written about one specific situation should apply literally without change to a very different one.

Any video will show that it does not!

Most will show that on the third step of a feather, the receiving foot goes flat not when the moving foot passes, but almost as soon as the moving foot begins the process of moving towards the standing one! This is entirely proper, because that foot needs to be flat before much bend in its knee occurs, and dancers today are bending their knees a lot more a lot earlier, descending further, and creating much larger and more dynamic overall movements.

In both Miro and Pino's basic foxtot On the third step of a feather, the receiving foot is flat before the release of the toe of the back foot from the floor, in fact the toe has not even moved and the recieving foot is flat. CONTINUITY as well as flight is the object.

astaire.If you Google Marcus Hilton basic Foxtrot. The question by the late Harry Smith- Hampshire which was where is the moving foot at the time that the heel of the standing foot lowers to the floor on the third step. It can be clearly seen as being down. But take a look at the lady at the same time on the same step. you will see she hasn't lowered yet. She will not lower untill the moving foot arrives under the body. From there go to the Wave starting on bar 12. Take a look at the lowering by Marcus as he goes Backwards in the Wave. If you want to confirm what you see is not just one mans interpretation. Go to the 06 Foxtrot Final at Blackpool and watch Timothy Howson also in the Reverse Wave. The way to get a good look is to press pause and then move thermometer type thing along a fraction at a time. Cheers

"If you Google Marcus Hilton basic Foxtrot. The question by the late Harry Smith- Hampshire which was where is the moving foot at the time that the heel of the standing foot lowers to the floor on the third step. It can be clearly seen as being down. But take a look at the lady at the same time on the same step. you will see she hasn't lowered yet. She will not lower untill the moving foot arrives under the body."

If you look carefully, you will see that in actual fact many ladies, and Karen Hilton is a good example, usually have their heel flat on the floor well BEFORE their moving foot gets anywhere near it to end the third step of a feather.

They do this because this is what is required by the large dynamic motion they've chosen to create in these situations. It would be awkward to start seriously absorbing the fall in the knee bend as has now been the norm for many years, while still holding the heel up as you propose.

If you are only watching youtube though, you might not see this as the few pixels representing the heel of the lady's shoe often get lost in the video compression. You may be seeing the heel cup above the floor, and unable to see that the heel tip is actually on it.

And that's not to say that everyone does it all the time. I've seen some video of Alessia for example, where the path of descent is such that she can keep her heel up longer.

The only correct answer to Smith-Hampshire's question is that the proper sequence of events depends on the desired character, not of a step in general, but of the interpretation being executed by a given couple in a given instant. As there have been many interpretations, so there have been many slight variations of the details, each perfectly correct for the situation in which they are used and entirely incorrect for some other situation.

Anonymous. You've watched the video clip. Is Karen's heel off the floor on the third step of the Feather or not. And at the same time is Marcus down. Then go to Luca and Lorain , you know how to get there and how to manipulate the speed, and look at the same step. Are they both the same or not. Simple question isn't it. Lets have an answer from anybody . The lesson to be had here is don't listen to people who have been taught incorrectly or just didn't listen.. Look for yourself

"Anonymous. You've watched the video clip. Is Karen's heel off the floor on the third step of the Feather or not."

Karen's heel is flat on the floor while her feet are still quite far apart.

Alessia on the other hand still has her heel up at the eqiuivalent point.

This is quite simply because the correct timing of the lowering of the heel depends on the scale and character of movement desired - there is no uniform right answer.

Anymouse. That's a name change or did you get all excited. i've come to the conclusion that you are not able to slow the clip down to a speed which you can see exactly what is happening.
At the extent of the stride on the very first step of the Feather Step is he down with the heel on the floor, and has she still got her heel off the floor. Then look at the third step also. Your going to look a bit riduculous if you give the wrong answer. because everybody and their grandmother can go and see for themselves. On the Luca and Lorain Foxtrot Demo tape. He gets far more rise and lowering than most. But the technique is the same . The original arguement is. As the moving foot of the person going backwards arrives under the body the heel of the suporting foot lowers to the floor. This is exactly what the technique book say for any backward step. There are no if's or but's, Again anybody can go and look for themselves including grandma. Your failure to come up with any quote from any book. Or to say exactly how you think it should be done

"As the moving foot of the person going backwards arrives under the body the heel of the suporting foot lowers to the floor. "

This is simply not the case for the Karen Hilton examples I examined, because her heel is on the floor while her feet are still apart. Yet you persist in ignoring this, even after asking me if her heel was on the floor and being told several times that it was.

It's also not the case for many others.

However, there are times when some leading dancers keep their heel up longer - Alessia for example, and you seem to have seen Lorraine doing it.
So clearly both are valid choices.

"This is exactly what the technique book say for any backward step."

It is what was written about a backwards step WITH NO RISE OR FALL. That is obviously not the situation in a feather step, where we have a backwards step incorporating substantial fall.

For many leading dancers, the addition of fall modifies the timing of the heel lowering, for others it apparently does not.

"Your failure to come up with any quote from any book."

The specific subject is not addressed by the book - something that I realize, but you keep ignoring.

You've found nothing in the technique book that literally addresses the lady's foot timing in a FEATHER STEP, only things that discuss the very different case WITHOUT RISE OR FALL.

Further, even if you had found something in the book, it would not necessarily be applicable to modern dancing. We've all seen how the men are lowering out their foot rise earlier than it says in the book, because they are going to be descending much deeper than contemplated in the book's era and need to get that foot flat on the floor before they start seriously bending their knee.

Alex Moore Page 13 paragraph 3.
Continue to move backwards, draw the RF back to the LF and at the same time lower slowly the left heel to the floor making sure it does not touch the floor untill the RF is level with it. This is similer to what my old teacher a world finalist would call I think, "a splitting of the feet" a must for all good dancers, here are some examples of what she ment. On the third step of the NT waltz, start moving the left toe back before the heal of the RF touches the floor. curving three step, start moving R toe before L heal touches floor. same action for coming out of chair into slip pivot, coming out of slip pivot into a DRS etc. This gives a greater softness and flow to the movement, you could say that one foot is always moving. This needs strong ankles and is one reason that we have exercises to strengthen them.Cheers

"Continue to move backwards, draw the RF back to the LF and at the same time lower slowly the left heel to the floor making sure it does not touch the floor untill the RF is level with it. This is similer to what my old teacher a world finalist would call I think, "a splitting of the feet" a must for all good dancers,"

It's a good idea in many situations, but by no means all situations. The description quoted applies literally only to the described situation of a walking step taking with no rise or fall, though it can also be the appropriate technique for some (but not all) steps that do feature rise or fall - depending in large part on the path of rise or fall chosen by that dancer in that particular movement.

Which is why it's easy to find video examples of world champs doing otherwise, and lowering their heel long before the feet close. In fact you yourself (assuming you are the same "astaire") mentioned this the other day.