jofjonesboro. Commenting on your first writting headed Chaucer wrote.
We have the same situation here. One professional told me that all people want in their lessons and classes is more and more groups and never to go over the groups they already know. To go to a technique class only where the man and the lady learn the others steps and are asked to perform them just is not popular except by those who know how important it is. How can a man lead a lady unless they know what the ladies steps are, plus many steps have a different timing to their partner.
When you wrote. What I am about to say may not apply to other cultures outside the US. It certainly applies where I live.

I'm not sure where you live but you raise a couple of good points.

First, you've given another advantage of owning a technique book (we use both Alex Moore's and Guy Howard's). My partner is new to Standard even though she's done Smooth for years. I not only get to teach her how to read the books but also have to demonstrate her moves for her. I don't object to doing either of these things; they make me a better dancer.

Also, she's coming to the realization that her past instructors haven't really taught her much about posture, poise, and footwork.

It sounds as though we're writing about school children but too many men are uncomfortable with any activity that puts them in a feminine position. A big part of becoming a good dancer is simply growing up.

I try to encourage all new dancers to get the manuals and, when they can afford them, some videos (which are not cheap). Of course, the first priority for their money and time must always be lessons and classes but students need to be aggressive in developing their own knowledge base.

jj

I never practice what I preach, so I'm not to be taken seriously, but so many students would benefit from the concept of "It's just dancing... dancing is fun... If you don't get it right this time, we'll just try it again later" instead of "I'd really like for you to do a routine in this showcase, and have you considered competing?"

Personally, if I'm having a problem (following), I ask my partner to 'go back a step'... revert to something easy we completed well just before that, and work up through and hopefully past the problem, each time climbing over a problem and working up. If we learn something new, I ask for "just the word", and then ask to "use it in a sentence"- things before and after it, to get a feel for where it belongs. Sometimes the conjugation and structure beats me up.

What isn't in the technique book but is being currently taught is that in dancing position the man's right hand and arm from the elbow are at a right angle with the elbow in front of the line of the rib cage. The lady must place her armpit on the man's wrist and get a good conection then shape to that side. The eyes will not be horizontal, the man's will be. The man's hand will wrap around but it wouldn't matter if you didn't have one. It becomes just a decoration. The most important part is the ladies armpit to the man's wrist conection. From that position it becomes much easier to lead and follow. Never ever draw that right arm in towards the lady. All that will do is pull her off her balance. The lady should feel like a ghost in a dress. Which is a phrase that is often said.

Diva, I've learned that students must take charge of their lessons. Yes, the instructor is the "expert" but the instructor is getting paid with the students' money and the students need to control the tempo of the instruction. As you point out, the lesson needs to remain on an issue until YOU are ready to leave it.

One jackass of a professional once told me that if students couldn't master a figure within three attempts then he would not teach them.

Many teachers have become frustrated with me because I insist that they take the time to articulate their instruction clearly. You don't know how many times I've had to ask one "Are you showing me what I AM doing or what I SHOULD BE doing?"

Unfortunately, many dance professionals are as clumsy in their use of language as they are graceful in their execution of dance moves. One characteristic of good teachers (in any discipline, not just dancing) is an ability to communicate with their students in precise terminology.

jj

I've been dancing Standard for 10 years now. I consider myself lucky because 1) I have an excellent teacher (who is now my husband and partner) 2) We've both had excellent coaches and 3) I have no desire to teach. I don't necessarily advocate it for everyone, but we never discuss steps. I work strictly on technique and following. He never does the same group twice. He never tells me what we're about to do. If I CAN'T follow him, it's an issue with my technique. We'll discuss that and then he will sneak that step somewhere in another group so I don't get thinky about the step itself. It requires patience for sure (as well as faith in proper technique), but it has paid off beautifully for me. (He can throw a new group at me that he just "borrowed" from the latest Blackpool, and I am able to follow.) I never imagined that my dancing would reach this level when I began. The downside to not "learning steps" is that it's difficult to follow people with poor technique. I consider that a weakness of mine, but it's really not an issue for me since I'm only dancing with my husband. I do think I have a better understanding of dance, though, because I took the "patient" approach.

jofjonesboro. When you wrote One jackass of a Professional. I might agree with that If I were a high profile teacher and wasn't looking for pupils. I might suggest that they spend their money elsewhere. probably with one of the trainees. We have teachers here who would do that, and they are right. I take it that the steps being taught wasn't that complicated. If it were they would have already qualified for the advanced instructions.

That response is the type of elitist nonsense that I'd expect from you.

BTW, I fired this particular professional.

jj

I agree- I think to most degrees, we as students should "set the pace". Our instructors should challenge us and teach us, but not push us beyond our limits. They should bring us out to our potential without trying to force something from us that isn't there.

We're blessed with a team of excellent coaches we relate to very well. Both are able to very successfully find a way to communicate with us- what we're doing, what should be done, and an exaggerated version of what's wrong so we can SEE it.

I wouldn't call her a 'jackass professional'... although I was *very* stung at the time, in a group WCS workshop (again, WCS is NOT my favorite thing), I was singled out and picked on briefly by the woman, and I could feel and see her patience run out with me as she hammered away as "nicely" as she could, but several people asked me later "Was there some kind of problem"?... It's another reason I detest group workshops, weekends, things like that... we're not in grade school math class anymore, They can stop picking out the slow kid and calling them to the blackboard, y'know?

Good instructors have a trick for handling "slow pokes" in a class. They will usually pair them up for several minutes with some of the stronger students who don't mind helping out.

My instructor often used me and my previous partner in such a manner and it almost always worked. The slower students enjoyed the class much more.

I'm very democratic about dancing. It's a universally beneficial and fun activity that should be available to everyone.

jj