Anonymous. You have just put yourself on the spot here. You are now saying that the lady swings and then the man swings in that order. Which is no to people swinging at the same time. Even then you've got it back to front,

"Anonymous. You have just put yourself on the spot here. You are now saying that the lady swings and then the man swings in that order."

I said nothing of the sort!

If you had actually watched the video, or thought about the meaning of the word "inside" in the message of mine that you were responding to, you would instantly realize that at the very same time while Karen swings the inside of of the turn on the first measure, Marcus is swinging further than her on the outside. And then at the very same time when Marcus swings the inside on measure two, Karen is swinging further than him on the outside. There you have it - both dancers swinging at the SAME time.

There simply is no pause and wait by either partner in ordinary swing figures when they are fully danced by by experts. Instead, both bodies are in continuous movement throughout.

Anonymous. page 19.
5. A backward step on the RF followed by a side step on the LF which is taken on the Toe would be.
1. Toe Heel 2. Toe. This indicates that the Right Heel is still on the floor untill the LF has been placed in position on the toe.
Do you still think the person on the inside Swings into position.
Pleaser explain RH still on the floor untill the LT has been placed into position.
Natural Turn . Same technique.

Perhaps what would be useful here is to get some definitions of swing (incuding both upswing and downswing), flight (and their relation to rise and fall). Anymouse and Polished could you oblige.

"Anonymous. page 19.
5. A backward step on the RF followed by a side step on the LF which is taken on the Toe would be.
1. Toe Heel 2. Toe. This indicates that the Right Heel is still on the floor untill the LF has been placed in position on the toe.
Do you still think the person on the inside Swings into position."

Yes, most certainly you use swing on the inside of turns when fully dancing, as that Hilton video would have clearly shown you if you had bothered to actually watch it.

Your mistake is in thinking that swing always has something to do with footwork. But swing is not a foot action, it's a body action. In some cases that body action influences the footwork, in others such as the inside of the turn the footwork is the same regardless if you are an advanced couple dancing fully with both partners swinging proportionally together or dancing as a beginner might, which is to say pausing and waiting for your partner rather than swinging at the same time as them.

Oh dear. I will have to dig up once again John Wood's instructions on inside and outside of turn and who takes the big step and who takes the small. And what happens if this is not done correctly.

"Oh dear. I will have to dig up once again John Wood's instructions on inside and outside of turn and who takes the big step and who takes the small. And what happens if this is not done correctly."

Let me save you the trouble by reminding you that I've consistently pointed out that the person on the outside of the turn has a larger swing.

Your mistake is in still not realizing that the movement on the inside, while smaller, is still a swing.

And you obviously still haven't watched that Hilton video you like to recommend, because if you had, you would have seen that in both of the first two measures, the person on the inside of the turn is executing a swing at the same time as the person on the outside, they are just executing a somewhat smaller one.

Anonymous. Two people. The one on the outside has further to go than the one on the inside. How do you recon we both finish together in exactly the same poise that we started.I'll tell you. The one on the inside applies No Foot Rise.( NFR ). on step one. and then follows the man up into the rise. The man must be allowed to go past on the first and second step of the Natural Turn.That is a step and a rotation. If not the lady will arrive to soon and both will lose their centres.

"Anonymous. Two people. The one on the outside has further to go than the one on the inside."

Polished, what do you think I meant when I wrote the following?

August 27: "I've consistently pointed out that the person on the outside of the turn has a larger swing."

August 24: "while Karen swings the inside of of the turn on the first measure, Marcus is swinging further than her on the outside. And then at the very same time when Marcus swings the inside on measure two, Karen is swinging further than him on the outside"

August 21: "the partner on the outside is going to want to move not just enough to pass us, but enough to pass us AND move both halves of the couple down the floor."

You write: "The man must be allowed to go past on the first and second step of the Natural Turn.That is a step and a rotation. If not the lady will arrive to soon and both will lose their centres."

To which I'll supply my answer that you ignored a week ago:

August 21: "I've already pointed out to you numerous times that the person on the inside of the turn must time their swing to match the needs of the person on the outside. You keep ignoring this point, and so keeping coming to a mistaken conclusion."

Anonymous. No wonder it was written in a Uk Dance publication that the first three of a Natural Turn in the Waltz which has been with us since 1922 is still being argued about today.
On one tape which I have. The instructions are. Swing. Turn Sway. The other tape says. Drive Swing Sway.
Take your pick.
And Alex doesn't think it is worth mentioning. He does of course mention Turn and Sway.
So does Sway = Swing.