Just as an FYI: there are NDCA events that utilize the o2cm competition management system (with hand-held pdas). Windy City Open and City Lights are two that spring to mind.

"Just as an FYI: there are NDCA events that utilize the o2cm competition management system (with hand-held pdas). Windy City Open and City Lights are two that spring to mind."

IF you want proof of my "stone age" comment, try loading an o2cm generated results or registrations page for a larger competition...

They made the most ridiculous of design mistakes in their system, which makes the web interface all but unusable as it's constantly trying to recalculate huge pages, which are themselves outrageously bloated with inefficient coding.

Perhaps you don't know what you're doing.



jj

"IF you want proof of my "stone age" comment, try loading an o2cm generated results or registrations page for a larger competition...

Perhaps you don't know what you're doing."

Perhaps you didn't try a exploring a very large competition.

The way it's done, it has to cruch all the data to make a dropdown list, then if you decide you want to see a different page it has to recalculate that all over again before it lets you navigate.

At some point recently, they attempted a quick fix so it only prints a subset of the data it used to on the navigation pages, but it's still very badly done - lots of time making pretty pictures, not enough thought into the functional design. Anyone with applicable experience of large events would have simply printed a list of the events on that first page, without trying to list the dancers in each one.

for which you had difficulty pulling down the results.



jj

"Competition operations are in the stone age of computerization - it's a world of badly written systems that are incompatible with each other, crash at the worst possible moment, etc."

"This statement more than any other shows that you do not know what's going on."

No - I know exactly what is going on. These systems are evolving but they are still very bad, in part because selection of them is more about politics and who-knowns-who than about actual software quality.

"The remote-driven scoring software is a fully fledged application that I've seen in use in at least two different amateur competitions (perhaps pro/am competitions are behind the curve). The handheld devices are provided by the competition. The actual roster for each heat is projected on the wall."

Which is all wonderful - WHEN IT WORKS. But a lot can and does go wrong. And when it does, people are often unprepared to fall back to paper.

"Do you know what a memory stick (also called a flash drive or a USB drive) is? It's not even as large as a man's thumb. I honestly don't think that it would impose a burden on anyone."

It's not just the hardware, it's the compatible software systems to make use of it - and the need to support the users. What are they supposed to be storing on these memory sticks? Using what software? Running on what computer?

Did you know memory sticks randomly fail? If not you haven't been using them heavily. They are great - when they work and I use them extensively, but you need to plan on them failing at the worst possible moment.

"Will the NDCA go for my idea? Of course not. The current system serves their membership very well"

And it's their membership, rather than armchair rulebook re-writers such as yourself, who they are supposed to serve.

"Anyone looking at the calendar of NDCA-sanctioned events will see that they are almost exclusively those competitions that are dominated by pro/am."

So? If they don't interest you, don't go to those, and only go to the ones that have events that interest you. I believe I've already mentioned in this thread that most everyday competitions are seen by serious dancers as a sort of joke - if they are interesting, it's as a place to try out a new idea or an opportunity to pick up easy prize money - only a minority really have solid enough attendance in pro or amateur divisions to be considered meaningful as competition.

and I use them all of the time.

You can bluster on all you want about dancing but you don't know sh*t when it comes to computerized systems. Your complaints are twenty years out of date. Software compatibility? Get real.


Yes, the NDCA, trying to help its membership fleece amateurs such as myself, is the major source of the problems in dance competition.


That statement may or may not be true (and I don't believe that you know which it is) but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

As soon as it dawns on most people that ballroom dancing will not (and should not) be in the Olympics, overly restrictive revenue hungry groups such as the IDSF and the NDCA will find themselves struggling to hold onto their grip on the world of dance competition.



jj

Anonymous. what are you trying to prove. I have never once seen an event where a top Professional or Amateur's name was not in the program. Think on this. If one is allowed to enter after the closing date then all can do the same. Wouldn't that be a mess. Why have a closing date for entries if it means nothing and is not going to be enforced. I think if a couple was not allowed to enter a competition because they missed the closing date I doubt if they would make the same mistake twice.

"Anonymous. what are you trying to prove. I have never once seen an event where a top Professional or Amateur's name was not in the program."

I have seen many. At smaller comps, important couples are more likely to be a last minute addition than to actually be registered in time to be printed in the program. Think about it this way - if looks a lot better to not be registered but to show up, than to be registered and be a no-show.

"Think on this. If one is allowed to enter after the closing date then all can do the same."

Some couples would be accommodated if they just turned up, but often organizers will let anyone enter late if it doesn't force them to add an extra round. It's not in any body's immediate interest to turn them down.

"Wouldn't that be a mess."

Not really. If everyone did it all the time it would be, most of the time it's not a problem.

"Why have a closing date for entries"

To try to get an estimate of the schedule. And yes, to print a partial listing in a program (which is really more about a place to sell glossy adds than anything else - many actual competitors won't bother to spend the extra money to buy a copy)

"I think if a couple was not allowed to enter a competition because they missed the closing date I doubt if they would make the same mistake twice."

Only if it was an important competition, which only a minority of competitions are. More typically, if an organizer refused a couple in a way that they felt was unreasonable, they would probably just never bother with that competition again - for a small competition it's more the competitions loss than the couples'. It's not uncommon for organizers to reach out and try to round up couples, especially if key events are looking small.

You were going to provide me with the name of a competition served by o2cm for which you have had difficulty downloading results.



jj