No, the issue is that you refuse to acknowledge that the Chart description is of the FOOT POSITION, RELATIVE TO THE OTHER FOOT, AT THE END OF THE STEP. It doesn't say, anywhere, that a sideways step is taken, because, of course, it isn't.

"No, the issue is that you refuse to acknowledge that the Chart description is of the FOOT POSITION, RELATIVE TO THE OTHER FOOT, AT THE END OF THE STEP. It doesn't say, anywhere, that a sideways step is taken, because, of course, it isn't."

The chart clearly defines the step as "To the Side" because it is organized in terms of the foot position.

The fundamental issue is that you refuse to accept the words on the page for what they are - a definition of the step as a sideways one, NOT AN INSTRUCTION TO TAKE A SIDEWAYS ACTION.

Your mistake is that you are trying to draw a non-existent distinction between what is given in the book vs. the definition of the step, which is impossible because what is given in the book IS the definition of the step, by definition.

What you should be doing is drawing a distinction between the documented result of the step, and the actions that should be executed to bring that about.

(And by the way, you are wrong about the end of the step, because by definition the end of the step occurs either when the feet are together while passing, or in this case when the right foot has drawn halfway closed. What you should have said was at the "extent" of the step or at the conclusion of arrival, not at its "end").

I've got nothing to add, except that you are obviously an idiot.

If you are not going to use book language accurately, then it's indeed better that you not try to use it.

Telemark. If you get your full weight over your first stepping foot then you will swivell, otherwise you will have a strange position of that foot. No good for a competition. If you arrive over that foot after you have turned and compressed you should be able to lift the moving foot from the floor without having to adjust the weight

I'm confused by what you say. If I don't take my body weight over step 1, I will never be able to take step 2, and I'm not expecting to have arrived on 1 having just turned anywhere. If we are talking about the natural swivel that will occur on 2, then see below, but if so, I'm certainly not going to then lift the foot to close it on 3, but to draw it to the standing foot, with slight pressure into the floor, to retain balance and control, prior to the weight change that occurs on 3.

The main part of the turn on an outside turn occurs between 1 & 2.

The turn is accomplished by swivelling on both feet, but with the weight over the forward foot. Both the first step and the second step are taken forward, and the swivel is taken on 2, so that both feet end parallel, directly across the line of movement (in the case of a Natural Turn), DW. The swivel to the R takes place at the same time as weight is taken over the moving foot (rather like a Latin Forward Walk Turning), and the Man will take care to style the turn so that it has the appearance of being continuous from its commencement on 1 to its completion on 3, greatly helped by the correct use of CBM on 1 and continued body turn. The foot position given in the chart (LF to side) is perfectly consistent with this movement, and the whole turn is completed on the LF, as the RF closes to LF on 3, with the ending alignment of backing LOD.

Of course, the Inside Turn action is distinctly different, in that there is no foot swivel on any step, the whole turn being made between 1 & 2, placing the moving foot in a pointing alignment, and completing the body turn to match the feet on 3.

In both the Outside & Inside movements, an ugly foot position on 1, prior to the main turn, is taken care of through the small foot movement consistent with the correct use of CBM by both dancers, and of the commencement of the turn. No further adjustment is required.

Guys all you need to remember on the step being questioned. I think it was a Natural Turn in the Waltz International Style. Dance your weight from foot to foot and dont try to turn before your weight as arrived over the standing foot. If the posture between the partnership is wrong then you haven't a chance of doing it correctly

Dead right!

Don't forget, that this movement is by no means restricted to the Natural Turn (it obviously applies equally to a Reverse Turn), but it has general application to all "Outside" & "Inside" turns, where the turn in the forward movement is divided, using a swivel action, and the backward component has a foot placed in a "pointing" alignment, with no swivel. The two movements fit together perfectly, just as they should, just as long as no one does anything so silly as to attempt to step "to the side".

Think in terms of the second step on an outside turn as being like a latin "forward walk turning" and all will be well.

"just as long as no one does anything so silly as to attempt to step "to the side"."

Although step is defined as being to the side, no one has been suggesting that the proper action to achieve that is to take a step to the side. Instead, it's been clearly explained that the action is forward.

It's critical to recognize that the definition of a step as given in the book's charts is not a literal instruction for how to execute it, but instead a description of where you will end up. It is an outcome description of the result, not a procedural description of what to do.

Based on the outcome description, the student or teacher must consult the collection of rules (some of which are stated in the official book, some more of which are found in Ballroom Dancing, and some of which are simply not written down) to determine the actual procedural action that is required to achieve that outcome.

Hello everyone,
I wanted to throw my 2 cents in here to say that if a pro is spending a lot of the lesson time having to look up things, then I would go to another teacher. Although as many messages point out, it's not possible to remember EVERY figure, the pro should not be using expensive lesson time to learn and teach him/her-self. A good pro should prepare for the student lesson prior to the lesson; ie...if he/she is going to teach a move that is unknown or not completely remembered, then study it BEFORE the lesson so the student isn't paying a lot for the pro to learn or refresh his/her memory.

I am a student who has taken many lessons from many pros; for the cost that is charged for lessons, in my opinion, the pro should be prepared.