I just did my first competition (american style) at intermediate level (associate bronze and full bronze)
I really wonder how they judge. I thought that they will look at students and check for the posture, footwork, what we (as student) do... However, i'm rather under impression that they look at what the couple are doing, mostly at the lady movement .... in that case, if a guy happens to be with a very good female teacher, they can almost stand there and the teacher do all beautifull movement ... and you can get away with a good mark/rank. Is my impression correct ? does anyone have that impression as well ? could anyone having experience with competition tell me what judges are looking for ? all comments are appreciated. thanks

In closed and open single-dance freestyle categories, men and ladies are judged separately. You may be dancing on the same floor at the same time, but you are not being judged against each other. So this should not be an issue for you yet -- at least, not until you start dancing in the multi-dance categories such as scholarships and championships, which start at the full Bronze level.

In the unisex categories, each couple is to be judged as a whole, regardless of whether the teacher is the man or lady. In theory, therefore, the male students shouldn't have any advantage. A lady teacher may look better than a lady student, but then again, a male teacher also looks better than a male student. When all is said and done, the couples with the greatest advantage are those that contain the most talented student AND teacher together.

Now in reality, you may be right that the male students have a very slight advantage. Or at least, the good ones. Competing pro-am ladies probably outnumber men by 5 to 1 (no hard data here, just a rough estimate off the top of my head for the sake of argument). A reasonably talented male student is even more of a rarity. So when one does see a talented competing male student, one does tend to be impressed. The novelty factor may be enough to cause a slight imbalance in the judging standard. It's nothing official, it's just human nature.

But if such an advantage does indeed exist, it's fairly insignificant. There are other factors which can skew otherwise perfect imaprtiality... A judge may simply recognize one competitor from previous competiton, while another competitor may have taken lessons with the judge. Another competitor may be the most attractive, while still another may have the best looking costume. All of these factors will tend to carry some weight. In the end, being a male student ranks pretty low on the list of things that'll give you the competitive edge. Being a good dancer is still the best way I know to win dance competitions. Everything else is peripheral.

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson

To Been Around:



What makes a competition a competition and not something else?

Here is a dictionary definition:



From this definition, I think the main thing that makes an event something to be called a competition is the "contest between rivals". Now, of course, what we call competition today has added an artificial element of scarcity. Prizes such as first place and cash awards (offering recognition and money) are the things that are in scarce supply. But the only reason it is in scarce supply is because the producers of the competition have set up the game that way.

I personally think that you can have a contest between rivals without the artificial scarcity. So in answer to your comment, no I don't agree with you that it is silly to have more than one first place or none at all, as the situation merits it. Nor do I think that setting up the game this way would take away the "sport" element or the fun of the event, if it were designed correctly.

And yes, I am examining all sports that are set up this way, so the excuse that just because other sports do it this way is a reason why everyone has to do it this way seems a weak argument.

In order to figure out what a competition is, it is helpful to first figure out what elements don't make an event a competition.

I will list those I see. I am sure there are others I haven't mentioned here.

1. The gathering together of dancers of various levels to perform for each other and for judges.

2. The dressing up in costumes and performing for an audience.

3. The training that goes into each dancer's performance.

4. The support that fellow dancers can show for each other.

5. The support that teachers show for each other and the recognition they give to each other for the progress of their students and their hard work.

6. The showcase part of the event where a couple that is accomplished comes to perform for the rest of the dancers.

7. The recognition that studios receive for the accomplishments of their teachers and students.

I enjoy and appreciate all of these elements that are included in today's ballroom competitions. But, I do not acknowledge that any of these elements are essential to an event being called a competition or even qualifying as a competitive event.

Now, why am I questioning the concept of artificial scarcity being part of our modern day competitions? Basically because I feel that artificial scarcity and a lack of declared standards by the judges actually defeat some of the major purposes that a competition is set up for, at least from what I gather a competition's goals are. These are some of the goals I would imagine a competition would have:

1. To make the competition owners financially successful and recognized. Actually, this would have to be an important goal for a small business owner who is producing a competition. If they don't succeed, the event will die. I actually think that modern competitions do this pretty well, at least the one's that are surviving. They would only benefit by more participation and recognition of their event.

2. To support commercial ballrooms and teaching. Because teachers get paid by their students and sometimes by the competition for entering their students in events, it is mutually beneficial for competitions and commercial ballrooms to see to each other's financial success and recognition. I actually think that modern competitions do this pretty well. Teachers, ballrooms and competitions will only benefit by ways that promote their interests even better than they do today.

3. To inspire dancers to dance. It is essential to have dancers participate in competitions for the above two purposes to be accomplished. In addition, I think that most people would agree that inspiring dancers to dance is a worthy and essential goal. I think that today's competitions fall short of this goal when they do not make it clear as to what standards the judges are using to make their choices. I have seen many dancers give up dancing because of competitions, and I don't think it is just because they lost, it is primarily because the judging seemed to be arbitrary to them (whether it was or not).

4. To inspire dancers to achieve their very best. This is the purported major reason that competitions always use to justify the giving of first prizes. But, how is this accomplished when a couple is uncontested? I have seen time and again at smaller competitions, especially where there are several divisions and levels, that at least 1/3 of the couples are uncontested and win first place. How is this going to help the couple to achieve their very best? The judges aren't giving feedback on how the couple danced, only a rating of first or second. There is no declared judging standard. If there were, it would be possible for a couple to be uncontested and still not win first and to be able to interpret the results to see how they were doing with their own personal mastery.

5. To push forward the standards of mastery for the whole industry, causing dancers to achieve greater achievements than their predecessors. This is usually the goal of other competitive sports, especially in the Olympics. It is easy to measure when the desired result is clear, like running a mile in the shortest time. But, with dancing, judging events is not very clear. Even were standards created for individual competitions by a panel of judges, it would only serve to reveal the weaknesses inherent in making judgments between an event that straddles the fence between sport and art.

I am going to stop here, because I would love to get some feedback from others and hear their comments on any part of this discussion. I certainly don't feel I have all the answers. I am not putting my ideas forth as the "best". I am just thinking out loud and encouraging others to look at things and explore their questions and ideas on the subject.

Dancing and loving it,

Karen

To answer your question as to what judges are looking for, I can boil it down to a very simple conecpt: They want to see pretty much the same things your teacher does.

One of the advantages to being a pro-am student is that you have an experienced mentor to hold your hand and walk you through the entire process. You never have to be in the dark about anything. If your teacher is good, he or she will give you exactly the information you need to win the next competition, from good dancing to good costuming and grooming.

We could tell you that judges look for good posture and correct footwork. We could tell you that timing is important, or that you should never look down at the floor. But I would guess that your teacher has already covered these topics many times over.

Assuming your teacher is doing a good job, there's really nothing else we can offer you. However, if there is a specific matter or point about which you are confused, feel free to ask... we will be happy to clarify. Of course, so will your teacher, I'd bet.

Regards,
Jonathan

I'm not sure if this is quite what you're looking for, but you can try:
http://www.ballroomusa.com/radham/howjudged.htm . That should help give you an idea of what judges look for. I'm not sure if it's written with a particular level of dancer/dancing in mind though. Every judge has his/her own preference though. Some may put a bit more emphasis on say proper footwork while another might want to see more musicality, making your dancing match the phrasing in the music. Whether they look more at the man or woman in making their decision probably varies a bit, too. *shrug* I've been out of competitions for years and even then only did college level comps where you get judge by who's the least bad. Maybe that link will help though. Good luck.

--
James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall