Yes...amazing when you realize that if you make a fist and meet your partners fist'at the knuckles it can give you all the information you need to follow. Maybe not ideal, but it does work!

As a substitute for ballroom hold, no, but in Latin in open position, well we do THAT all the time. Actually we can lead quite successfully with no contact at all. We do THAT in Latin all the time, as well.

Actually, one can ( kinda ).

Peggy Spencer played a " game " at her studio one practice nite( way way back when ) where you were not allowed to have either hand in contact.
The " exercise" was to dance dance a feather, rev, feather finish, 3 step and natural.. repeat..

Doing that would REALLY make you think about maintaining body contact, and being aware of your partner's movement, but I would claim that we should dance with that awareness all the time.

Argentine Tango dancers can teach us a lot about lead and follow. If the follower is concentrating on (and not necessarily in actual contact with) the leader's chest, then fantastically small movements can lead perfectly effectively. Look at the way a leader will lead a follower from the cross into, say a forward ocho, without ever moving a foot, and with barely any visible rotation.

Many dancers have a huge amount to learn about the partnership required for effective lead & follow.

If you cannot dance with only the left hand for connection, then you and your partner have not yet learned to perceive and match each other's movement, and instead are relying on collision of your bodies to keep you coordinated.

With some this is so difficult as to seem pointlessly impossible. With others it is simple enough to scarcely merit comment - individual dancers degree of perception varies so much.

Good Argentine Tango Dancers do not look at each other's chests. That is an excercise for beginners and it helps the lady align herself to the man and the position of his chest, something that is essential if the dancers are not in embrace. This visual isn't a source of following information except in maintaining connection. If you see a good Argentine Tango couple, the woman keeps her eyes closed with her forehead against his temple, or chest depending on height.

Belle, I know what you mean, but I think you are making a simplistic connection between 'good' dancers and close embrace. Many prefer a more open embrace, and they have no less a connection for it.

The purpose of my comment was to associate the idea of dancing with no hold at all, to an acute perception of your partner's torso, which is where 99% of any lead comes from.

Anymouse, If you have good body contact all the time, there is no opportunity to collide, and I would far rather dance with no hand hold, than with no body contact.

Practising and dancing are two different things: we do one to be able to do the other.

I wouldn't argue against the 'five contact points' principle, but interestingly the IDTA's current ballroom technique doesn't mention body contact AT ALL, except in one reference to promenade position, when it describes an alteration to something that it hasn't defined in the first place. I'm no fan of Howard's text, but that is an extraordinary omission.

I agree that good has nothing to do with embrace. I was simply trying to clarify the origin of the lead in Argentine. It's extravegently subtle and it can take a long time to learn and it does come from the core, just not really visually. I could just see novices out on the floor trying to watch each other's chest instead of learning the true art, part of that is in the intensity or softness of the lead which can only be communicated through physical contact.

I completely believe that if anyone wants to really learn to lead and follow they should take on Argentine. It will change the way they dance.

I think that we could readily agree that the lead comes from the core in AT. Subtle? Yes, in the hands of an advanced dancer, but on the whole? Well the average standard is pretty modest, generally, and I think that focussing on the leader's chest is actually a step UP from what generally happens: the arms are used, particularly to signal rotation, which brings me right back to the beginning of this topic, and the assertion that that's not what they're for in any dance style.

Interestingly, I constantly find more similarities than differences between AT and Ballroom (so I go against the trend), and would say that the lead in both works in exactly the same way, fundamentally. The differences arise from the particular style requirements, and the actions, typical of each dance.