Interesting thread and lots of valid opinions. I would tend to agree with KC that the biggest hurdle to dancesport being considered a legitimate sport is the truly subjective nature of the judging - even compared with ice skating and gymnastics.

At least those sports contain some kind of required elements that give some commonality to judge competitors. Dancesport does not have any of this.

Your comment about football, hockey and baseball referees influencing outcomes is somewhat valid but these instances are definitely the exception. By in large any "traditional" sport event outcomes are determined by a point system that is connected to specific activities involved in the sport (like scoring goals, or runs). Even ice-skating and gymnastics start from a perfect score and have a public system of deductions that generally determine the winner.

I've been to quite a few dancesport events, the biggest being the Emerald Ball here on the west coast of the U.S.. To me a dancesport spectator crowd seems to care very little about the outcome of a dancesport event. Everyone is just there to see all the couples do their thing and at the end there is really no vested interest on the part of the spectator in a couple winning or losing. This is of course barring some kind of personal connection with the competitors. Compare this to say football, baseball, or basketball where die-hard fans throw themselves into deep depressions for weeks after a loss. There is so much at stake for a hardcore fan in the outcome of a traditional sporting event.

Whether it be because of the perception that the judging is too subjective or whatever the reason may be, this is something that is dancesport lacks. The spectators seem much more like a group of people seeing a musical and experience the event on that level rather than on a level that is almost entirely based on the outcome.

I agree with Ralph's assertions that the artistry in dancing is something that we do not want to eliminate because of the dancesport format. To me the dancesport format is a rather limited way to showcase the strengths of partner dancing. The emphasis on precision and speed and other athletic aspects takes away from the aspects of partner dancing that really make it unique among sports and artforms - the partnership skills, the emotional depth, the storytelling capabilities. I think the emphasis on the dancesport format has limited the growth of people interested in partner dancing as spectators. With all the couples on the floor at once and random music being played, the format seems to emphasize aspects that make dancesport the same as other sports not the apsects that make it unique. It is a shame that dancers with such immense talent basically spend years perfecting a handful of routines that have to be general enough so that they would be meaningful to whatever music was being played at the competition.

As much as I love the format of dancesport as a competitor and the access to a certain romanticized lifestyle that it offers. I believe that ballroom's emphasis on this format continues to limit its popularity in the United States.

Ballroom dancing is a physical activity that is artletic.

Up to now we have not considered the nature and source of the energy employed.

I did not say athletic, I said artletic.

eluck - I also like the unique aspects of ballroom in competitive dancing and would like to retain them. I think, though, that the present format - with multiple couples on the floor at a time - is an important part of that. Without others on the floor, it would be easy for couples to simply dance a routine memorized by each partner, reducing the need for lead and follow. Having other couples adds the element of floorcraft, emphasizing partnering skills.

Having the focus on one couple at a time might indeed increase the activity's popularity to spectators on the mass market. I think it would make the link to actual dancing in ballrooms more tenuous, though - and therefore decrease competitive ballroom dance's popularity as a participatory activity.

Besides, we already have Theatre Arts for those who want to do or watch the 'one couple at a time' thing.

Warren J. Dew

Hi,
Just wanted to let you know that I am a competitive ballroom dancer and would be happy to talk to you about this if you still needed information

~ballrooma~

You may want to contact the experts at Viva Dance and Elite Dance Studio , among many others in the greater Toronto area.

I am not anywhere near a ballroom competitor. But I am heading for the gym now - to develop flexibility and upper body strength. (I am a strong walker already.) Besides keeping healthy it is also that I can be a decent ballroom dancer and with the physical ability to enjoy doing it.

All ballroom competitors are extremly fit and deciplined - they have to be. Many, if not most, have ballet, modern dance or figure skating background, or training semilar to them. You can readily observe in dance studios and dance halls that dancers are way above average in physical shape and ability. I think this is evidence of a sport.

eluck, Many pro events now begin with 30 sec. to 1 minute intros where each couple gets to dance a bit by themselves. Also, like gymnastics, ice skating, ski jumping and other exhibition sports...anyone can go to a "Show" such as the International Latin Festival and see pre-choreographed routines done to set music. I love to see this aspect, and how it changes the goals and dancing of the presentation. However, it takes multiple couples on the floor IMHO to motivate couples to push their dancing to higher levels of competition.

I agree also that "Show dancing" does not tend to inspire as many people to actually try partner dancing. Not that pro comps do either...both are far too intimidating for most lay people. It is a mistake that we make in the US to not televise and otherwise hype more amateur, junior, and lower level dance events (of course we have trouble just getting the pros on TV). The greatest challenge in attracting new students in the Midwest is simply that no one sees partner dancing done well, and so they never think of it as something that they could learn, or might want to learn. A pro couple doesn't make them think so either...they need to see more married couples, older couples, teen couples and high quality social dancers!

Finally, to eluck...the US system doesn't inspire a big following or die hard attitude amongst fans...but take a look at some european web sites! They take their couples seriously and follow them religiously.

Happy new year to all, KC

I did a project on ballroom dancing last year. Maybe i can help. It i very hard work, you must know your steps, music, timing. etc. The Olympic Commettie are thinking about making it a sport for the Olympics. And in Europe Dancesport is huge. It is the equivalent to our baseball or football.

Hi,
I'm a competitive ballroom dancer from the Netherlands (Holland). (I don't do drugs, don't live in a windmill and don't wear wooden shoes!)

This I found on www.danceplaza.com, THE dance-site in The Netherlands, it might add something to this discussion:

"Not many people know that the DanceSport is a sport that's official recognised by the International Olympic Committee IOC!
On the 8th of September, 1997, The International Olympic Committee announced that it had recognised the International Dance Sport Federation (IDSF) as a recognized federation and full member of the IOC."
(http://www.danceplaza.com/index.tpl?id=198)

Finally to set something straight. Dancesport is definetly not as big in Europe as baseball and football are in the US. Even Darts gets more media attention! However, it is growing. I think that if IDSF gets dancing to be an Olympic Game so that it gets more attention from the masses, dancesport will grow to what it should be. An well (that means better) organized sport with big a lot of international competitions like Blackpool!

Joost

P.s. Can anyone say hi to Louis van Amstel from all dancers of Clara Lamar? Thx.