If Cuban Rumba has 4 even beats,the predominant beat is no.4 and dance starts on beat 2 with hip movement on no.1. If there are only 3 audible beats is the dance started on the first beat and is this the predominant beat?
If the above doesn't make sense can some knowlegible dancer explain Cuban Dance timing as this subject is driving me crazy. I seem to be ,always, out of time with everyone else although I have no problem with timing in other rythms and I'm a reasonably competent dancer.

James. The Cuban Rumba in the main has a hip movement on the first beat count 1
On a front basic, as you are aware, is foreward left foot for the man on the 2nd beat which is two. If you are not experienced the trouble starts by passing your weight over to quickly from four onto one, then if you are not carefull you will step foreward or backward whatever the case may be on the wrong beat of one. This why some teachers, if their pupils have a problem, get them to count beat four as stop , and beat one as hip. So it will go like this, 2 3 stop hip, which is still 2 3 4 1. Incidentally the Cha has the same difficulty with the timing Also if you start looking around the floor at other dancers, It could be you are right and they are wrong. So I never look, I just keep counting and trust my own judgement.Happy Counting.

From a musician's standpoint, I'm afraid that I don't agree with much of what you were taught (especially the part about "3 audible beats"). Whether you're talking about authentic Bolero, Bachata or modern pop ballads, the music to which we dance the Rumba has 4 beats, all of which are "audible", all of which have certain accents played by certain instruments. Depending on the style, some beats do indeed receive more emphasis than others. But all of them receive at least some sound from certain drums or instruments (occasional breaks in music notwithstanding).

In modern pop ballads, as well as hybrid and/or "watered down" latin beats, emphasis typically falls on or around beats 1 and 3, owing to the bass guitar and bass (kick) drum.

In more authentic Latin music where the drumset is absent and the beat is carried predominantly by the percussion, the accented beats are centered around the "clave" (a word which represents which both a specific rhythm and the instrument that plays it). The clave spans two measures, having two acccents in one measure and three in the next (or vice versa). There are a few variations of clave, but in the most typical variation, accents are on beats 2 and 3 in one measure and in the other, beats 1, the "&" of 2, and 4.

What's interesting about all of this is that no matter what form of music you choose, there is no form that accents beat two or four consistently on every measure. In less authentic music, it's quite the contrary; accents are on 1 and 3. In authentic clave-basic music, accents occur at least once on each beat over the course of two measures. The only beat that even comes close to getting an accent over both measures is beat 3 (which gets a direct accent on one measure, and an "anticipated" accent on the next). So there you have it... accent-wise, the strongest beat is either 1 or 3.

...Not that any of that matters. Because in all styles of music, there is something that overrides all accents, and it's known as "agogic" stress. Agogic stress is the natural emphasis which overrides all accents played an un-played. The strongest agogic stress invariably occurs on the first beat of every measure. In other words, you will always perceive 1 as the strongest beat, no matter how hard you bang your bongo on count 4.

All of the above leads me to believe that there is no true natural reason to break on two. At least, not in Rumba (There's another argument for Cha Cha, but I'll leave that for another discussion). Breaking on 2 is, in my humble opinion, a learned response. Much in the same way you memorize choreography, or learn to sing a piece of music, once you become accustomed to doing it a certain way, it starts to feel "wrong" to do otherwise. The more you become accustomed to something, the more awkward you will find it to change, even if the change is for the better. As a musician, I truly believe that breaking on two is musically *inferior*, in spite of the fact that my body naturally wants to. Without all the conditioning, I think I'd be much more inclined to break on 1 or 3.

The joke is on those who vehemently insist on some convoluted musical rationale. There is none. There does have to be some reason for how it came to be, but that reason probably doesn't include a logical musical explanation. As a result, any explanation as to *why* we break on two is not going to help you improve your ability to accomplish it.

(To be continued in the next message...)

(continued from a previous message)

...But I digress. Insetad of rantintg about the shortcomings of other explanations I've heard, allow me now to actually be helpful.

Before you can fix your problem, you first have to be absolutely positive about the *source* of the problem. In all my teaching experiences, I have found that the inability to break on two is always caused by one (and only one) of two problems: (1) The inability to find beat 1, or (2) The inability to avoid breaking on beat 1.

In the first instance, it is futile to attempt to find 2 if you can't find 1. 2 is the result of 1, so if you can't find 1 you're completely lost. It is easy to recognize this problem; People who can't find 1 are very inconsistent about what beat they start on. Sometimes it's 1, sometimes 4, or 2 or 3... whatever.

In the second instance, the problem isn't finding the beat. You can find the 1. The problem is that you feel the 1 so strongly that you *must* break on it. The issue here is that you percieve the break as the dominant action. Whetever the dominant commencing action, you will be inclined to do that on 1. So the remedy is not to try to find beat 2 at all. The remedy is to change your perception of the dominant commencing action. In other words, forget about 2. Find the 1, and know what to do on it. Then, just as the 2 beat is the natural result of the 1 beat, the break becomes the natural result of the dominant commencing action, which, in the case of (Int'l) Rumba, is the hip settling action.

The key to happiness, however, is knowing which problem you suffer from. An oil change isn't going to save you if your brakes are failing. So make sure you get the correct diagnosis before you bother working on the cure. And just to be sure, get a second opinion.

If you do learn that you have trouble simply distinguishing one beat from another (ie finding the 1), I regret to say that you have your work cut out for you. Quite honestly, the best advice I can give is to seek out a music teacher, not a dance teacher. If you're really dedicated, perhaps take up piano on the side. Be patient, and realize that this may take a while.

On the other hand, if you are consistently able to nail beat 1, then a dance teacher will be better suited to your aid. The first step is to understand the conecpt I described above. The second is to have someone help you train your brain to perceive the hip action as the dominant commencing action, rather than the break (or in cha cha, the third "cha" rather than the break). After that, all it takes is repetition, to the point that to do otherwise would feel wrong. I would hope for your sake that the latter is your ailment, because ultimately, it's a much simpler problem to overcome.

Whatever the case, I wish you well with it. If you ever do get it figured out, please let us know here on the message board. We're anxious to know what ideas or explanations end up working for you!

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson

Good one Jonathan. My difficulty with Rumba was because for years I did modern, there was'nt Latin in my early years. As we are aware in the Waltz or Foxtrot for instance we power off on one. Now I had to do a hip movement only on the first beat.After going through the obviouse problems I find it almost impossible to dance on the wrong beat. It did take a long time to conquer this. In a technique class that I attend, the coach has everybody dancing Rumba walks every week for some ten minutes or so, this is done solo.With the music playing she taps out the beat one with these wooden things a Latin Band might use.This is an absolute ritual every Thursday evening evening 48 weeks a year. We also must get our heel down on the beat, very important. I hope these comments may help.

I had a bit of an issue with contrasting rumba timing to foxtrot timing in this way.

Wouldn't it be correct to say that in both dances, the first step of the measure is building energy on 1, but the foot lands on 2?

Of course the difference is that in rumba, people want to see tension and release moving through the whole body, wheras in foxtrot they only care about body timing, with foot timing irrelevant as long as the body is supported.

My sincere thanks to all of you who replied to my query. I'm still digesting the information .I love the rumba rhythm and hope that some day I will be able to dance it competently.