One more thing to remember: if both you and your partner let the placement of your feet be entirely determined by the motion and sway of your bodies, then your steps will autotamtically be the correct sizes as long as you maintain your mover your bodies jointly with the proper CBM. If either of you lets your foot move independently of the body, then you have a recipe for a partnership argument over step size.

Step size in promenade... there is no specific answer, it all depends on if you are turning obviously. In which case it is controlled by the CBM, according to whichever method (straight, curved, or broken) of CBM you choose to apply

Anon:Okay, now we are hearing what I am trying to get across. "You cant let the placement of your feet be entirely determined by the motion and sway of your bodies." To me it makes the clearest of sense, what else can you say??

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing that the body should guide the foot... if you disagree, try getting a lesson with a top Eggleton school coach and see if that doesn't change your mind. Or just think about it this way: she can't feel or see where your foot is, so you had best keep it connected to something she can feel, like your body - otherwise you leave her guessing how big a step to take.

Anon: I am whole heartedly agreeing!!. I preach frame til I'm blue in the face and it is wonderful to see the look on my students' faces when they discover that, "if I keep my frame and learn the pattern,then when I lead they cant help but follow". The question then of "Length of a step" is eliminated by our connection and lead. Let's move on!!.

Owendancer. In my humble opinion the key to a good none struggling Reverse Turn Foxtrot depends upon this. We at the beginning of the Feather are on four tracks. But with the lady moving out of the way with a big step on the first of the Reverse, the mans foot is now on the inside of the ladies right foot. Not close up but still more towards the ladies centre with a smaller step. I was one of thoes who used to try to keep my Left Foot on the outside of the ladies Right Foot on that first step. Untill I saw the light, and that was by watching a DVD in slow and zoomed. Now we have another argument, and that is the ladies first step is wide of her body, not on a straight line. The man is on a straight line untill he turns. If you are lucky enough to have the tape by Anne Lewis, just listen to the spoken words and demomstration about the first of the ladies heel turn. If you hav'n't I can give you a word by word quote on that first step.

Rha, you are right about the man's left foot needing a clear shot inside of the lady for any reverse turn, however it's easy to overinterpret what that requires. You don't actually have to have your toe inside her toe, it's enough to have your ankle inside her ankle even with the toes outside.

However, this doesn't require the lady to step wide - in fact it occurs as a natural consequence of using full CBM, by which you will both end up on a single track. Don't make the common mistake of confusing that with CBMP, which is merely an indication of a larger angle between your foot and its track.

Incidentally, I wouldn't step wide when moving backwards for a natural action like a spin turn either. If you learn to do it all in the body, you can keep the actions more linear and hence powerful - stepping off the path steals potential energy from the rotation.

Anonymous,

I don't actually 'try' to get foot, ankle, toe or anything inside her toe.

On certain reverse turning movements I dance a straight forward progression with CBM and for that 'moment' it only looks or feels like I'm on the 'inside' Actually I'm not and that perception quickly disappears as the movement continues to unfold.

We keep our connections and unaffected tops and she looses alignment and takes a larger step without even being aware that it's happening. No sense of conscious intent to take a 'wide step' or a larger step on her part. She is very aware of maintaining a light, unobstructive connection and a clean topline though.

Rha

Rha

RHA: "CBM", "That moment", "We keep our connections and unaffected tops", "She loses alignment and takes a larger step without even being aware that it's happening", "She is very aware of maintaining" all speaks to what I've been saying. 'Frame,conection, no doubt in her mind'. RHA, good for you. Nuff said

Promenade is a slightly different beast in other ways, but I wouldn't treat the "size of step" issue here any differently.

We all know that in promenade, the lady is positioned slightly behind the man. If she advances on him, she will have affected the relative positioning so that it will not be as far offset to the left when the couple closes up. She is therefore required, as she is in closed position, to take a step identical in size to her partner.

Rotation affects the quality of steps, but more in terms of direction than size. Just as we've been discussing with closed position turns, there may or may not be a slight difference in the size of the side step following the initial progressive step, but you can minimize that with proper usage of CBM and directional differential (not size differential) on step 1.

I should mention that I don't mean to argue with John Wood on a particular dance technique. It's your interpretation of his instruction that I disagree with. You are probably misunderstanding what he said, and I would be willing to bet that if he were here to join in this discussion, he would correct your misinterpretation. But this is why it's not a good idea to quote other people (unless you can actually quote them verbatim). It's far better to discuss the mechanical aspects of a movement than to try to purport what we think somebody else meant. So I suggest we leave John Wood out of the discussion and see where it goes from there.

Incidentally, you don't have to be sorry to disagree. I enjoy the technical discussions, and the activity they bring to this message board.

Regards,
Jonathan

Anonymous. Your anwere was. "Let the placement of your feet be entirely controlled by the motion and sway of the body ". Strange that I should have also been instructed to do this at one time. It is so wrong. The feet dictate and point you in whatever direction you are moving to. Your feet move your body not your body moves your feet. When we walk do we flight our bodies or do our feet go first. Remember dancing is as natural as an exaggerated walk. Anyway go to your tapes and don't have a preconceived idea of what is there.