Anomymous. I've been on about this for some time. You've hit the nail right on the head when you mentioned size of steps. The bigger step two is , the less rise and susquently the less lowering. I don't quite agree with the infinite rise and fall part though. Unless the technique has been recently altered we commence to rise at the end of one, Theres your first level.
Continue to rise on two. There's your second level.Still rising on three. There's the third level. Don't hang around up there you have to be at your highest and your lowest on three, from the beginning we have two seconds. Having a close look at the book it could easily me misinterpreted as having no further rise after two.IT says. Rise at the end of one. Up for two and three. If you see what I mean. My interpretation of this is there is rise between two and three. This could prove a good discusion.

If you use what I call the (rocket and parachute method ) throw your body into the air to arrive onto a high left heal without any further rise of the heal as you bring the right foot alongside, I would say the rise is completed to early and is not a true lilting action that can be heard best in Victor Sylvesters music, but if you arrive on a bent left knee and then straighten that knee(not lock) you will have a contolled rise as performed by many top dancers in the past and will have the true lilting action. This use of the knee takes place on two and five of the waltz weave and in many other places so why not in the natural turn. Yes I know the feet are passing. Dave

No, you still misunderstand the physics of movement. The amount of rise is determined by the change of speed. If you are taking a big step (going fast) then to close your feet you will have to reach a maximum rise - otherwise you overshoot. But if you are taking a big step and not shooting for foot closure the rise is less. Since there are infinite number of step sizes you could choose to use on successive steps, there are an infinite number of rise heights needed to absorb the changes in energy. Only in the crudest sense can you enumerate a few levels.

for example, each step in a weave will have it's own unique rise level

"The bigger step two is , the less rise " This has been discussed before, but i don't accept it. The top dancers use a long step 2 (in, say waltz natural turn, which i think we're talking about)and demonstrate an impressive rise

Phil. The original question asked was what is being taught by the leading coaches and what is being performed by the leading dancers regarding the size of the second step today in a Natural Turn Waltz. I know what I was originaly taught which was go for it. After being told not to I took a look at some dancing I have on tape. Solo Waltz Ten Dance IDSF 2003 from Canada. Some of the camara work was looking downwards from a stage. Only one out of the six finalist as far as I can see has the same width of stride that I was first taught. So has it changed. My 98 Blackpool tape, with the slow motion in the tape, shows one of the competitors taking a hugh side step. I wonder if the same guy is doing it today. He is still in the top ten professionaly. So the question remains What are the top coaches teaching today, and how are the top dancers dancing that width of step. Is it as far as we can stride or not.

Don't watch IDSF events for technique, the dancers are mostly too young to know what they are doing, though they do put on quite an impressive show. Sadly the same can now be said even for a lot of the professional events. But what the couples who win, often there are subtle but key differences.

For example, many dancers even into professional finals do not understand how to make shape their bodies so that both can occupy the same point in space. Instead, the detour around each other. This detouring means they take a very large step one (since the partner has stepped sideways out of the way) but because they have lost alignment they are now constrained to take a smaller step two. Contrast the true experts, the best of the best current and retired, and you see that they stay in each others way but move together. This creates slightly less travel on the first step, but a much larger free release on the second, which is the way the modern waltz has always been explained.

Suomynona. I still believe a very wide second step will lose control. The best way to find out is to do it. If you can stop dead with your feet together and be as high on your toes on the third beat before lowering. That's perfect. But if the feet are passing and the following step taken more as a prop than a step. That isn't correct. The danger is if everybody around you is doing the step wrong it can rub off. I can't agree that the leading Amatures technique is lacking. Who do you think they have lessons with .Maybe you don't have acess to some of the tapes I am watching. There will be another on 10th Nov. I suppose you are aware that Mirko Gozzoli used to norrowly beat the present champion Soale. He Mirko Gozzoli
turned professional and in a little over a year is right up in first place as a professional. As I have said before. In the final of a IDSF some of the dances are solo before the group. As we are all aware we can watch in slow motion once it's taped. Sorry if some of you don't have the same luxury.

You may not be able to take a large second step without loosing control, but using the proper technique it is easy to do so.

On the IDSF events, yes you can get a good couple now and then, but by and large the field is too young and too results oriented to show real insight into the technique. Very few of a top teachers students will fully understand the core ideas in what that teacher teaches - those who do are awesome, the rest end up as professionals who teach a watered down version based on their understanding, to students who will understand even less of that. It's not enough to study with the best, you have to take the time and effort to fully understand, and most even at world level do not.

Annon. I was not talking about the amount of rise but the lilting action that should be danced throughout the basic 18 of the waltz. How to accomplish this without any help from the knee(compresion )of the second step as the foot is brought along side for the count of three. I beleave the same action of the knee used in the weave,wisk and elseware on the second step happens on the natural turn, but is no longer danced because of the exaggerated sway danced by today's top pro's.