In most of the cases listed above, not only is the center of pressure in the heel, but the actual physical location of the body's center of mass passes over the heel. It does not stay there - but then it doesn't tend to stay over the toe either, as in the body flight dances it is in almost constant motion outside of waltz-type closures and hesitations.

Syomynona. We are not forgetting that on a Whisk there is a sway to the left on 2 as well as 3.

"Phil, this is a common misunderstanding. Someone who does as you say will have danced the footwork "T" not the "TH" requested."

I never said the heel doesn't lower. What i said was the weight must be kept forward. I don't accept that the weight should be allowed go back over the heel.I used to do this ,and it destroyed the smooth flow of my dancing. It is perfectly possible (indeed desirable)to lower the heel but keep the weight forward over the toes (or ball of foot and toes). Perhaps we should talk about weight distribution. 80 or 90% on the toes. Of course this is all my view, but i'm definitely not going back to letting my weight go back over my heel.
To onlooker - we're talking about moving out of a promenade position, or out of a whisk - the transition from 3 to 1 (at least, that's what i've been talking about)but actually, 3rd step on a progressive chassis would be very similar.

"I never said the heel doesn't lower. What i said was the weight must be kept forward. I don't accept that the weight should be allowed go back over the heel.I used to do this ,and it destroyed the smooth flow of my dancing. It is perfectly possible (indeed desirable)to lower the heel but keep the weight forward over the toes (or ball of foot and toes)."

Phil, I agree with you.

Rha

I've tried to do that but my body seems to instictively put the weight on my heel, is that a normal problem to get over or is my foot just insane?

This is a reply to a post by Adamicmyth on 21 May

Hi Adam
some would say that what you're doing is correct. But here's my version of things anyway.
You just have to break a habit, which isn't easy. One way to make it easier is to get the correct 'feel' as simply as possible. Try this exercise.
Stand on the ball of your left foot with your right just touching the floor lightly alongside your left foot. Now lower on the left so that about 2/3 of your weight is on the ball and 1/3 on the heel. Feel what that's like.
Now go up on the ball again and lower so that all your weight is on the heel. Feel the diffrence.
Now do both of these again, but this time, as you lower, step forward onto the right foot. Of course this isn't exactly the same as when you're dancing, but for coming out of a whisk, it's pretty close. You'll soon get to recognise the 'feel' of keeping your weight forward, even though you're lowering the heel.
Whether you want to dance this way - depends who you want to believe!

Phil,
thanks I'm startin to like the feel of that and it's getting easier

also off topic I'll mention this in it's own post but I figured mentioning it here too won't hurt.

there is supposed to be a festival for dance, in NYC coming up this month. has anybody heard anything about this.

"Stand on the ball of your left foot with your right just touching the floor lightly alongside your left foot. Now lower on the left so that about 2/3 of your weight is on the ball and 1/3 on the heel. Feel what that's like.
Now go up on the ball again and lower so that all your weight is on the heel. Feel the diffrence.
Now do both of these again, but this time, as you lower, step forward onto the right foot. Of course this isn't exactly the same as when you're dancing, but for coming out of a whisk, it's pretty close."

No, that isn't even remotely close to what happens in dancing any figure. (And mention of the whisk is totall spurious - that's a backwards TH not a forwards one!) Your mistake in the lowering does however shed a lot of light on why you insist on using the improper footwork.

You should be lowering into the floor as your body just begins to transition onto the lowering step of any passing figure. If you wait until you are actually over the foot, you have missed your opportunity to lower correctly. If you manage to lower into the standing foot at all, it will be forward in the ball (big mistake!) but more likely you will not be able to lower into the standing foot at all, and will instead come crashing down on the moving foot. That's a mistake we see almost everyday, even from some relatively impressive performers.

If you do it properly, and lower so that your foot is flat on the floor as your body arrives (almost before your trailing foot even starts close) then you will have no problem passing your weight through the entire length of your foot from heel to toe - but if you wait to long to lower, you will be lucky to get your weight grounded in any part of your standing foot at all.

Anonymous, You have the advantage that whereas i'm using my actual name, you are not using yours.
We're talking about coming out of a whisk in promenade. Nothing else for the moment. Can we agree that?.
Let's also agree on what we mean by "passing your weight through...from heel to toe" or "passing the weight through the heel" which is an expression you've used before. These mean having all the weight on the heel of the left foot(for a man) as we lower at end of 3 in a whisk. Is that what you mean?
Of course there is a lowering into the floor from the softening of the knees and a lowering of the heel, but where we differ is your apparent insistence that it's impossible (or maybe undesirable)to lower the heel (so that the foot is flat on the floor) without having all the weight over the heel. And i simply don't accept this.
My suggested exercise was just that - an exercise - to try to give an idea what lowering with 2/3 weight on the ball of the foot feels like.
i know what it feels like to come out of a whisk having put all my weight on my heel - i used to do it. But not any more. However i am always willing to learn, but i need convincing to go back to something which wasn't nice. Can you give me a reference to a technique book which says all the weight must lower onto the heel in a whisk before coming out in promenade?

"We're talking about coming out of a whisk in promenade. Nothing else for the moment. Can we agree that?."

No, the actual thread topic concerns a forward step, not a whisk:

"when does the heel lower or touch the floor for a fwd step with the left after a promenade position with rise"

If you want to talk about the whisk we can, but only if it's clear that we are talking about an entirely different action - a BACKWARDS TH, instead of a FORWARDS one which is what the thread had previusly been about.

"Let's also agree on what we mean by "passing your weight through...from heel to toe" or "passing the weight through the heel" which is an expression you've used before. These mean having all the weight on the heel of the left foot(for a man) as we lower at end of 3 in a whisk. Is that what you mean?"

No, because I was accurately describing a forwards step, and you are trying to apply my words to a backwards step.

"Of course there is a lowering into the floor from the softening of the knees and a lowering of the heel, but where we differ is your apparent insistence that it's impossible (or maybe undesirable)to lower the heel (so that the foot is flat on the floor) without having all the weight over the heel. And i simply don't accept this."

It's not impossible, it's just required for the proper action of a forward TH step that the heel briefly take weight.

"My suggested exercise was just that - an exercise - to try to give an idea what lowering with 2/3 weight on the ball of the foot feels like."

You can make up all the exercises you want, but if they drill body positions not used in dancing they are somewhat suspect.

"i know what it feels like to come out of a whisk having put all my weight on my heel - i used to do it."

Ah, so we are back to the whisk finally. Your wight should briefly move back to the heel and then forward again, but your hip should not be allowed to get behind your heel, which is what you were probably doing. But since this is a checking action rather than a continous one, there is little harm in keeping your weight more forward in the foot. Compare the forwards action where lowering your weight to the middle of the foot is tantamount to stumbling, rather than dancing through the length of your foot from heel to toe.

"The Actual threat topic was this:
"when does the heel lower or touch the floor for a fwd step with the left after a promenade position with rise "

If you noticed that, why did you substitue a whisk which is a backwards lowering step instead of the forwards lowering step the poster asked about?