Many do not realise, that dance, in its formative yrs, was Pagan, and danced to the only instrument available-- the drum .
The strong connection between the Tumbao ,and all dance rhythms , is often overlooked .
Dress codes and apparel , are also inextricably , tied into the core of the latin foundational movements .
Witness the White shoes, scarves and head gear, worn by the practitioners of the more indigenous forms of the genre .
One begins to see, that the " Latin " you see danced socially, and in Comps., has little or no resemblance to its earlier forms.

many state -- Progress ! --- to whom ?-- the people who anglicised it to their benefit ?.
Once you have studied , danced, and " learned " from the natives, the light begins to shine .

I saw a program only last evening on Broadway in the 20's. In those early days the shows were more like reviews and evolved into what we know as Broadway Musicals. Even early Rumbas which were not traditional in the 60's look nothing like they do today. The music was faster and yet the moves were not as slick or as snappy as they are today. I have a tape from a 1980 International Competition from the Guild Hall in London. In the Rumba they oozed into their steps. The use of the hips was very limited because of the speed the music was played. Personaly I would not want to see a return to this.
I think in the beginning we were on the Argentine Tango. The person I go to to is very much a traditionalist. He is not the slightest bit interested in the show type Argentine Tango which has evolved. That's what he calls it. Tricks. I love it. My main point from all this is . If you stand still you die.

I,m a little confused ?-- You seem to imply that your teacher ( the trad. ) satisfies your needs-- and yet , in the next breath, you are saying you dont want to revert to traditionalism in other dances ?

Have not all the "other" dances, gone into the " tricks " mode ?.

As an adjudicator and coach for nearly 40 yrs.have seen the trends come and go. I danced rumba when ONLY sq. was around .
Do I dislike all the changes ?- no .
My main concern has always been the " slippery slope " in dance evolution . The Balletic type moves, which distort the character of the music and dance .
The majority of the dancers in Latin, dance with no " Alma y Corazon " as the latinos say . ( no heart-- no soul ).
It has become mechanical exercise to music .

If that is what progress is about-- then count me out !!

The majority of dancers in Latin dance with no soul. I would suggest they take a look at Paul Killick and Hanna dancing the Rumba to "Till You Came into my Life " sung by Colm Wilkinson.Or the same couple dancing to Shirley Bassey singing "The Greatest Performance of my Life. Both can be easily found on the net. That's is the whole dance right through. No soul. Humbug Sir.

You picked ONE couple out of thousands, doing a performance piece .

My reference is to " latin " dance in general terms , and specifically the Comp. scene .

Majority do not even begin to understand the music-- how many know what " call and response " means, in terms of the musical interpretation ? .

The very fact that intern. rumba commences FORWARD, is in direct conflict with the " essence " of its form . The first bar, should ALWAYS be commenced in a backwards direction .

Latin music tells a story, and if one does not understand the " story "-- how can you relate that, to the music ?.

I studied my latin in the u.k. with the best-- i soon realised, after living in the States, and working with " latinos " , how little I really knew or understood .


You seem to forget ( dont know your age ) but there were ( and still are ) people, teachers no less, who believe that Tea for 2, is good latin !!!

I have taught and lectured hundreds of teachers in the states, who were excellent theoreticians , but had no concept about the indigenous aspect of the genre .

" Son" to nearly all, means a relative !!

I do not speak any foreign language. In the Argentine Tango music our guy puts on is really traditional. Gotan Prodgect music is a no. So the singer is singing how his heart lies bleeding in the gutter. And she is treading on it. At this point I could be grinning like a Cheshire Cat. I have no idea what they are singing. But in a Rumba when Colm Wikinson sings When I gaze into your eyes, from the song Till you came into my life from Jekyle and Hyde. I know exactly how he feels.just think a little on this. Do you like tunes that you can identify with, with words you can understand, and maybe even sing along with, not too obviouse of course. Unless the music changes I can't see the Argentine Tango going any farther.

You see-- theres my very point--A rumba sung in English--

Now I know music is VERY subjective-- but in all your honesty-- even if you do not understand one word-- does not the authentic versions, overpower the senses much more ?

In one breath you say " my teacher wont allow gotan etc " and THEN you quote someone singing rumba, in English ??

The music applied to dance, was supposed to reflect its orign ( V.W.-- Polka--Swing-- Samba-- etc )

if one changes the music ( by its vocals or other means )-- then by its very nature, you change the cultural impact of its original form , and, possibly , its substance .
For e.g., could you imagine dancing a Tango to a Traditional Salsa ?-- both latin genres-- both , with possibly similar messages, in their lyrics-- and yet worlds apart in musical expression .

Again-- as to words being sung-- I really have no preferences-- some songs " tell " better stories without words ( Classical music is a fine e.g. )--
However-- if one does apply singers to the " piece ", then i believe they should reflect and respect its origins ( we are of course refering to specific types, as applied to dance not Pop. )Good e.g. is a salsa band from Japan, who sing in excellent Spanish .

Music sets the mood-- the words may attract or distract-- evidence the " singers? " , on the current dance shows !!!

The question remains. In which direction is Latin in particular going. Who would have thought that a Cha could be danced to "Summertime" from Porgy and Bess. See Slavik and Elana.In a competition, played often "Lets get Loud" by Jennifer Lopez. How about Shirley Bassey's latest "Get The Party Started". Rumbas. Elton John "Blessed". Can you think of a better one than "The Lady in Red". How about "My heart Goes On" from Titanic. Every night in my dreams, I see you , I feel you. Thats how I know you go on. Who couldn't dance that without feeling. In English.
A little bit of history. Google Fred Kelly. Gene Kelly's brother and you will see that he introduced the Mambo to the USA. And invented the Cha Cha.

Again-- you are giving me " Performance" pieces , which is within the norm for show work.

As to Cha-- you are light yrs away from the truth.

There are 2 legitimate contenders, one i was introduced to in Miami in 1977 ( cant remeber his name ) and the other is documented, and is from Cuba .
The name Cha Cha, stems from the way the singers shuffled their feet to the music. And cha cha is an extension of Guajira which was developed from Triple Mambo . I still teach and dance both on occasion.

The reason Cha was introduced ?-- the musical accents in the music began to change and the syncop. was removed from within the bar, to become a "pickup " connection BETWEEN 2 bars.

As a matter of note ( I dj salsa ) there are some groups out of NY. that sometimes include a Guajira in their releases.The syncop by the way is--on 3 and 4 ( old triple mambo )


I have done extensive research on the subject, and you need to go to salsaforums ( where all the latinos post ) and this will dispel most of the myths that exist . Everything is documented-- no hearsay is allowed , and if found out to be so, will be exposed .

PS-- In the " Latino " world-- Cha Cha does not exist ask any dj in the states ( latin clubs ) they will always say we dont play ballroom music !!

According to the information available on Paul Killicks site In 1940 the Mambo was popular in the USA but was found to be difficult because of the speed they were played at. As the Orchestras slowed it down the Cha Cha was born.
Would you remember when the Cha was not danced in competition, and we had a Nine Dance World Champion. Not a Ten Dance. It was also not a part of the Latin medals test. It was a medal on its own.
As you are well aware we dance The Rumba to music that does not have the predominant percussive accents with beat four .It is becoming a thing of the past. It has come a long way since those early days. In my humble opinion the traditional Rumba owes its existance to the International Style of Rumba without which it would still remain in the country of its birth. What now if we get onto Samba The above applies there also.