Actually -- it has nothing to do with that-- it is correctly following the path of the call and response ( read the other posts, there are many )

I thought you said that the call and response dictated that the man begin by stepping back. I was talking about the side prep step on 1 to begin American cha cha.

Apology-- i should have said the " break " is backwards-- and yes -- prep cha, with left foot side ( as in Bolero and mambo )

The explanation for this one is much simpler than it was for Cha Cha.

In Int'l Samba, there isn't a single basic movement. There are actually four: Natural, Reverse, Side, and Progressive. The one you learned first is the Reverse. That's because in most American style syllabi, there is only one basic movement, and that is the Reverse (usually just called the "Basic", or the "Box").

You may have been confused because in Int'l style, we usually list the four basics starting with the Natural, then the Reverse. But that's only because something has to come first, and it's only natural that it be the Natural. But as basics go, they're all equal, so you can just as easily think of the Reverse as being the basic action of Samba.

In American style schools, they tend to teach the Reverse as the basic basic, and then only later, if ever, do they add a Natural. This is true of many dances, not just Samba. Think of the Left Box in Waltz, Viennese, Foxtrot, etc. Int'l schools tend to teach the Natural first, or both together. One learns very early how to turn to both directions in all dances.

We don't have an American Samba syllabus on our website yet, but if I ever get around to adding one, rest assured it will list the Reverse as the basic step.

Regards,
Jonathan

Jonathan, thank you so much for explaining my confusion away! I understand so much more now. I've taken lessons from several teachers, and danced with various partners, encountering the different approaches to the basics. No one explained it, other than to say "This is the way I teach it." I'm glad to learn there's no right camp or wrong camp on this. I understand that in some cases, such as the cha cha, how one starts may result in a better feel for the rhythm of the dance, or work better for different patterns...VERY HELPFUL explanation!!! The best part is...He leads, I follow!

Hi to All,
To add to this debate on whether to start the dance either by stepping to the side, forward or backward, brought to my mind one of my early lessons in the Rumba at the beginning of the 60's. My teacher/coach was Jack Dixon who lived and taught in Bradford, Yorkshire, UK. Jack said to me to understand the Rumba better is to think of the dance as a 'Call and Response' danced by the man and lady. The man steps forward to the lady (the Call) she rejects the man by pushing him away (the Response) man rocks back. He then steps to the side and pauses which gives him time to think 'Do I have a chance here! he decides not! She senses his hesitation and has the man moves back she goes after him (the Call). He then thinks he has a chance and once again he goes after the lady, (the Response) only to find he is rejected once more! This Call and Response works well with the Hockey Stick. As lady, steps 1-3 the lady teases the man then over steps 4 to 6 moves away from him.

Actually -- its the reverse of that-- that symmetry, was put in place by Pierre .
if one checks the roots of Latin, its clearly defined in the folk dances , The man beckons to the lady-- she ignores him-- as she walks away, he follows her .

I was also trained by one of the greats ( laird ) long before you-- but-- when moving to the states, I gradually began to see, where the " english " had been led down the wrong path .
having re structured my " latin ", working and learning from latinos in the late fifties,, I soon realised , that the music should be dictating my responses thru the clave rhythms .
Have discussed this topic, with several prominent musicians in the latin genre .
As per usual , we( the englsh )have taken a "native " rhythm and dance, and anglicised it to fit our social and competitive needs ( Bolero DIDNT need to be re arranged into Rumba )

Thanks for your input, Terrence.
When you can find the time would you kindly write about the clave, in a new message, and how the dancer should respond to this in their dancing.

The true " clave " sequence, is danced over the 5 " clicks "

As you are aware, most dance is based upon a 4 beat bar, and the steps are designed accordingly .

To dance all clave clicks, requires that we change to a 5 weight change system .
In musical terms, this means we will not return to the commencing basic sequence, until 4 sets of clave have passed ( 20 clicks, gives us 5 bars )
This is acheived, by commencing side left
back right
fwd left
( Sqq ) 3 clicks
then-- side right
fwd left
( QQ ) 2 clicks
The return to right foot back ( s )commences the return to the 5 clave clicks .
This is the method some latinos dance salsa/mambo.

In practical terms-- it is commenced the same way, dancing SQQ- and then repeating that rhythm , in a fwd direction.
as you can see, we have temporarily abandond the clave sequence. It of course will return to its original place, providing we do not change the musical sequence.

Heres the catch-- some latin reverses the clave on " pick up bars "-- which means the rumba clave has changed to 2/3 .
My suggestion-- dont get to hung up on clave. The man decides the accent, and can change it to suit musical interludes (when no clave maybe present )
Many people talk about being on clave-- what they really mean-- they are " breaking " backwards on the second beat of the first bar !

Terence Why make something sound more difficult than it is. If Clave means to move through something forcefully, and in action they are breaking backwards on the second beat of a bar. Wouldn't it be better to simply say that in the International Style of Rumba on a front or Back Basic we take our first step on beat two with the music. In the beginning of a Basic we may do a preperation movement on the count of 4 1.which is then followed by the step forward or backward on beat 2.Hence the count of 2. 3. 4 1. Which is three steps to four beats, which gives us a movement of the hips only on beat 1.