"A normal step two of a Spot Turn is a weight transfer in place, the toe still turns out. It is not a Walk we have not taken two steps by then, only one and a replacement."

Whether the second step is a walk or a replacement it is still a step. That is why Laird calls it 'step 2'. I would accept a full turn being completed by that time, so if you have been treating that step and replacement as all part of step 1, and saying that a complete turn is made by that point, then that is where our mis-understanding has happened.

"If I were you I would get that Phantom Walk you have introduced on beat three sorted out."

I have introduced nothing. The execution of the figure has changed over the twenty or more years since Laird wrote his description. To quote the current ISTD manual for rumba, "Spot turns are three forward steps danced solo by man and/or lady circling to L or R." They go on to say in effect that leaving the foot in place as described by Laird is an acceptable alternative.

"There should be no difference regardless of whether it is a Walk or a Checked Walk."

I refer you to page 10 of your favourite book, where Laird lists four differences between a forward walk and a checked forward walk. Toe turnout is item 4.

SocialDancer. The Spot Turn you are refering to is the one where the back leg is released early on beat two and is brought into the standing foot and out again. I don't believe that one is yet in the technique book. But if you go to Learn the Dances you still wont see a swivell. You do see the turn out of the feet and you will see what I have been saying all along the full turn completed whilst the second step is still. That is the body still turning to complete the full turn. Which is exactly what I said in the first place.
This I will say again. A Walk is a Walk. There is no difference in one Walk to another. The foot is turned out everytime. I would hope you have not been instructed any other way. If you have you have an awfull lot to undo. Do you see the turnout of the feet by the lady on the Under Arm Turn Thats not a Checked Walk is it. Congratulations are due for their very excellent demonstrations. They are well worth trying to imitate .

OK, I give up! This is going nowhere!

I quote to you from the ISTD technique book and you say you do not believe it is in the technique book.

I refer you to where Laird describes the differences in the walks, and you say there are no differences in the walks.

You go on about no swivels when you are the only person to mention swivels.

I don't know what you are looking at in the learning centre, but if you go to the International cha cha spot turn you will find everything that I have been saying.

In the Overview: "A Spot Turn is loosely defined as two forward steps and a chasse" and later "Partners should have completed one full turn by count 4".

In the man's part (although I do not agree completely with this description) the turn is broken into 1/4 + 1/2 + 1/4.

In the video, the second step is a walk not a replacement and is not facing partner. So yes please do try to copy them, but be careful if copying the American style demonstrations.

I shall say no more on the matter. If you want to check anything do so with your teacher/coach.

Dear SocialDancer,
You're learning. None of us can keep up with Don's replies. I say Don because 3 years ago he insisted that the forward walk in the technique book was spelled 'Foward Walk' He then started to use about 5 other nom de plumes to defend any postings he had written.

Looking on the bright side he never quoted the footwork of the ladies Change of Direction to you.

Remember this: he is the man who believes there is a 'Checked Backward Walk!'

I can expect an 'earful. for this. Anyway, has the late Major Eric Hancox would write: Back to the Salt Mines.

I must say, SocialDancer, I've enjoyed reading your postings. Please keep them coming.

lluv2Dance.If the man is doing a Checked Forward Walk then at the same time what would the average person say the lady is doing. Wouldn't you call the whole thing a Checked Forward Walk.
If we were to split every movement in half. It would be near impossible to make any sense of the writting. Wouldn't it .
A bit of additional information. Many of todays dancers do the Back Basic movement with a difference. Instead of replacing the weight on step two they bring the left foot to the right foot. Everything else is normal. This works very well for the lady especially in the Cha where they don't want the weight to go too far back and consequently have to chase the beat. That cost me $20 to be told that. It's cost you nothing. Think of it as a birthday present.
Change of Direction Lady. T H. T IE of T. Then H. then inside edge of T of RF then T. S. S. S.. Which still brings you out of rhythm unless you change the timing. Or unless you use the last step as the first of a Curving Three Step or whatever. How did this one get into the conversation anyway. Here's one for you. Did Alex Moore simply copy from Henry Jacques. I was speaking to a guy only last weekend who knew them both. He has Henry's book in his studio which is always on hand.

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!>

OH! me head. Stop drinking that 'Sheep Dip'

lluv2dance. Take an Aspirin and have an early night. Are you going to Blackpool this year. It doesn't seem a year since Brian Watson retired does it. The results, could be a few suprises this year.

Serendipdy,
Lots of queries.
First, one for you: Change of Direction Lady. 1. T H. 2. T IE of T. Normally the lady draws the heel back. With the lady having a toe,on step 2, does this mean she draws the foot back on the toe instead of the heel?

I have Henry's book and in the Preface he mentions the Revised Technique and with that technique already published (1955) it has to be assumed it came first.

The movement of the lady's LF when stepping back has been seen for a number of years.

It should be understood that the techniques of both Ballroom and Latin American dancing are a description of what good dancers achieve at a particular musical beat or point in time. It is not a teaching manual and instruction has to be given on how to demonstrate these things that are set down on paper in a musical and interpretative way.

I will be in Blackpool for the Friday.

Iluv2dance, I think you may be a little out on the publications dates.

I have a first edition of Henry's book "Modern Ballroom Dancing" autographed by him in 1944.

My copies of Alex Moore's "Ballroom Dancing" only go back to the 3rd edition in 1938. The first edition apparently dates from 1936 which was when Henry was the British Professional champion.

Hi SocialDancer,
The title of my book is: Ballroom Dancing. The Theory and Practice of the REVISED TECHNIQUE by Henry Jacques. I bought this from the National Association (NATD)