As we all know( or should know ) there is no Sway or Swing on a Double Revers Spin.

"As we all know( or should know ) there is no Sway or Swing on a Double Revers Spin."

There is no sway in the classic version of course.

As for swing, unless you are importing the figure into tango there should be a degree of swing to the character of movement, but its of the category of figures where the swing is the least obvious - is both a reverse figure (which tends to have smaller swing than natural figures) and a heel turn (which tends to have smaller swing than ordinary turns)

The confusion comes in becomes the most dramatic examples of swing - things like the waltz the natural turn and the foxtrot feather step have a swing that results in a sideways incline of the body. But swing is fundamentally a character of movement in which the vertical and horizontal motion of the center are coupled, not an incline of the body. Downswings for example do not generally feature body incline.

CBM on 1, so yes, swing.

Anonymous Usually the word Swing is reserved for a body that is swinging past. A meterite swung past the earth. We wouldn't say the earth swung past the meteorite. The boat swung around whilst turning. Which is one side is travelling further than the other. If that didn't happen it is still going in a straight line. Or a Gyroscope. If the outside isn't travelling faster and a greater distance. Then its not a Gyroscope. Which leads me to beleive that the word swing in dancing is for the person on the outside of the turn and not the person on the inside.
Let the person on the inside of the Swing follow the instigator of the Swing, which if body contact is maintained must be delayed NFR and will be a smaller action. Just like the Gyroscope whose action is centrifugal.The centre does not Swing.
Is there anybody else, apart from my friend, who has been told to Swing when on the inside of a turn.
John Wood on his Tape went to great lengths to explain that from a Promenade Posiion going into a Running Weave. If both travell at the same time at the same speed covering the same distance. In theory the man will never get around to where he should be. But he will he added, because he will use his strong left arm and push the lady out of the way.He also said. But that isn't the way it is done. Is it.

"Anonymous Usually the word Swing is reserved for a body that is swinging past. A meterite swung past the earth."

And that is what a dancer does - moves on a path through space that is curved in the vertical plane due in large part to the effect of the earth's gravity.

The existence of a partner is irrelevant to that. It only comes in for determining how big the swing should be - larger for the person on the outside but smaller for the person on the inside.

"Which leads me to beleive that the word swing in dancing is for the person on the outside of the turn and not the person on the inside."

I hope that you are not under the mistaken impression that you swing around your partner, because you have in the past recognized that the movement are generally straight lines across the floor during step 1, and that means that the only direction in which the swing can curve at that time is in the vertical one.


"Let the person on the inside of the Swing follow the instigator of the Swing, which if body contact is maintained must be delayed NFR and will be a smaller action."

Smaller, yes, and the foot action is NFR but as you would see with Marcus and Karen on that video is it not delayed at all, but occurs as a continuous movement at the same time the person on the outside is moving. There simply is no pause on the inside with real dancers of that level. If it were delayed, then the person on the outside would have to curve their path to maintain a constant distance from the temporarily non-moving inside partner.

"Just like the Gyroscope whose action is centrifugal."

No, not at all like a gyrscope, because the path across the floor is NOT CURVED.

"The centre does not Swing."

On the contrary, in many situations such as downswings or the upswing into the double reverse it effectively the only thing that swings. The whole body goes along for the ride, but does not develop an incline, so you can reduce it to a simpler model of a point mass at the center of mass.

"If both travell at the same time at the same speed covering the same distance. In theory the man will never get around to where he should be."

Which is why, as I have been saying all along, you must travel at the same time, but NOT at the same speed and NOT cover the same distance.

Anonymous. I only got to paragraph five.
We have a horizontal Swing. not vertical . Your left hip on the first three of a Natural Turn will travel further than your right. If you ever try one of those Dance Frames you will discover this very quickly. For want of a better word the move shouldn't be cut.
John Wood on his tape Talks about a centripetal force as well as centrifugal. Centripetal is the one we are concerned with. I think he knows what he is talking about.I think that maybe you are getting Centripetal muddled with Centrifugal.
Telemark. Who told you that two people both Swing at the same time. That is the question. Was it an instructor. No two people should Swing at the same time. It should be . You go. I go. Not both go. If you are dancing American Smooth and are at arms length with your partner this might change the situation. I wouldn't know. I don't know the style.
Do you know what the footwork is on steps 4 5 6 of the Natural in the SVW.
Its flat flat flat according to Richard Gleave. No rise and fall feet flat on the floor. Then you Swing on steps 1 2 3. as your partner is flat flat flat. With that footwork and technique who could Swing . Who would want to and for what reason.

"We have a horizontal Swing. not vertical ."

That is only possible if your path of movement across the floor is curved at the time when you are swinging, which is to say the transitions between steps 3-1 and 1-2.

Mine is NOT curved there for most applications, and based on your past comments I would have thought yours was not either.

But apparently you do believe in curving those step ones after all. Otherwise you can't have a horizontal swing.

Unless you are willing to curve the path on the floor, the only direction in which your swing can curve is the vertical one.

"Telemark. Who told you that two people both Swing at the same time."

I guess you still haven't watched that Marcus and Karen Hilton video, as if you had that is exactly what you would have seen. Neither dancer pauses in the slightest when they are on the inside of an ordinary turn - they move continuously, but simply do so more slowly than their partner on the outside.

"No rise and fall feet flat on the floor. Then you Swing on steps 1 2 3. as your partner is flat flat flat. With that footwork and technique who could Swing ."

For a perfect example of swing without foot rise, I'd refer you to the second measure of that Marcus & Karen Hilton basic waltz video, in which you will see on the first step Marcus execute a healthy swing with no foot rise, on the INSIDE of an impetus. Meanwhile, Karen is executing an even larger swing on the outside.

Guy Howard. That is the answer.

Telemark. Why not look at the video on this site Natural Turn Waltz. Would you say that the ladies left heel is still flat on the floor as the man has swung past and is on his two toes. If you want more of the same go to Luca Waltz Demo. You will see exactly the same action by the lady. The Luca images . I have found a way of moving them so that no part gets lost. You might not be able to do this. But on this site it is possible without any hastles. So again . Go and look and you will see the man instigates the Swing past and the person on the inside follows. I mean lets be sensible about this. Todays dancers the lady is well over to the man's right side. With the lady on the inside of the movement and having less disrance to go how could she possibly go at the same time unless she mistakenly alters her position. Which was exactly what a friend of mine was doing, and on her first lesson in the UK, was told as the feet came together she was a couple of inches out and no longer in the position with which she started. You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that one out for yourself. So let us do the first three your way. Let the lady swing away and stop. Has your original setup disapeared at the end of the third beat. Or are you as you were when you started three beats ago.

"Telemark. Why not look at the video on this site Natural Turn Waltz."

You really need to take a second look at that video yourself, polished, as it clearly shows both dancers swinging at the SAME time, neither one pausing at any point to wait for the other.

"Would you say that the ladies left heel is still flat on the floor as the man has swung past and is on his two toes."

Yes, there has never been any dispute about that, but it is simply not relevant to the timing of her BODY's swing.

What is relevant is that the video shows that there is no point at which the swing of her body pauses to wait for the man. Instead it is continuous - she is swinging at the same time he is, she is just making a smaller, slower movement.