the poorhouse.

"Selling" their votes provides the only means by which many US judges - especially those who officiate at pro/am competitions - have of paying for their Lexuses and cosmetic surgery.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - is going to pay them $150/hour without the prospect of being repaid with a first place finish about which they can boast to their dance-ignorant friends.

Yes, a one-year ban sounds quite fair.



jj

"Nobody - and I mean nobody - is going to pay them $150/hour without the prospect of being repaid with a first place finish about which they can boast to their dance-ignorant friends."

You obviously are not a serious dance student, otherwise you would know that we take numerous such lessons from people who we have no expectation of receiving any sort of payback from.

Bribing a corrupt judge with lesson fees can't help you unless they are both on the panel at an event you are entering AND you will dance well enough in comparison to others there that they would not look like a fool to be marking you.

On the other hand, taking a lesson from a world class dance expert can help you no matter where you dance!

Don't run out and study with anyone just because they are a judge. But if you have had a chance to find out that they are a skilled teacher, don't let the fact that they are a judge stop you.

Anonymous. Are you in favour of judges judging their own pupils. Does anybody else believe that it is fair to have a stacked jury. Should a judge remove themselves from the floor if even one of their own pupils are in that event. Yes or No

So, to you, "serious" students are people who believe that it's necessary to cough up money that can be put to better use elsewhere just to make themselves feel better about their dancing.

It's not my fault that you've let yourself get sucked up into the "world class dance expert" racket. You apparently believe that spending more money makes you more "serious" than other students. In my book, it just makes you a fool.

A different coach can always help a dancer simply by offering another perspective and no student needs to shell out more than twice the going rate to obtain that benefit.


You really have no idea how the system works, do you? The competitions that are subject to this abuse subdivide their levels to the point that the ten couples on the floor are actually competing in five or six different categories. You'd have to stand perfectly still to fail to finish first.



jj

"So, to you, "serious" students are people who believe that it's necessary to cough up money that can be put to better use elsewhere just to make themselves feel better about their dancing."

No, serious dance students are those who known that spending twice the cost of a lesson with your local teacher on a lesson with the world-class expert who trains your local teacher will bring improvements in your dancing that two lessons with your local teacher won't.

There's a lot of value in getting the information firsthand, rather than secondhand.

So you get a few lessons with true experts, and then a lot of lessons with compatible local teachers who can help your implement what you learned from the experts.

"You really have no idea how the system works, do you? The competitions that are subject to this abuse subdivide their levels to the point that the ten couples on the floor are actually competing in five or six different categories. You'd have to stand perfectly still to fail to finish first."

Then this buying of first places that you allege would be pretty stupid if they can be had for free, now isn't it?

The question remains. Is it fair that a judge should judge their own pupils. Or should they remove themselves from the panel of judges. Failure to do this should result in a mandatory ban.
That is only a dream. Because those who make the rules are the biggest culprits and if not they then their collegues are.

"The question remains. Is it fair that a judge should judge their own pupils. Or should they remove themselves from the panel of judges. Failure to do this should result in a mandatory ban."

Then you will be banning essentially all of the worlds expert judges, as they pretty much all do this thing which is perfectly permissible under the rules that you want to punish them for.

Perhaps if you'd personally studied with some of those who judge world class competitions, you might have a more informed perspective on why they are needed as teachers.

only rationalizations.

Had you bothered to make the connections among the details of your scenario, you should have realized that you are actually confirming my point of view and not the one which you have convinced yourself that you need.

Sad. Truly sad.

jj

"only rationalizations."

No, the simple fact of why we book those lessons - because nothing else is nearly as effective in improving our dancing.

Until you've personally taken lessons with some of the world's best, all you can really do is GUESS at what the experience is or isn't worth. However high ranked they are, currently competing teachers just do not have the same experience and insight as those who have retired from world finals and then spent another decade coaching the world finalists who followed them.

Those of us who have taken the chance of booking a double priced lesson with one of these teachers know for a fact how much it helps.

And don't make the mistake of assuming that only advanced students can benefit. Serious students of any level can, because the more experienced and insightful the teacher, the more basic the subjects they will preferentially address.

Now I'm certain that you don't know what you're writing about.

One thing matters most in a dancer's development: time on the floor, both alone and with a REAL partner.

It is the student - not the instructor - who determines the effectiveness of the lesson.

I don't address this topic based on mere speculation. Years ago, I found myself ignorantly playing the same shell-out-the-money game which you are trying to defend. When the idiocy of what I was doing became undeniable, I walked out on the spot - in the middle of the competition. I never worked with any of the people on whom I had been wasting time and money again.

A dancer with an amateur partner will develop far faster than ne who only dances with professionals. One reason for this advantage is that, by sharing expenses, the two dancers can afford more time on the floor and more lessons together. They realize ten times as much of their full dance potential.

Atlanta has been overrun by pro/am; every major studio pushes it. I used to hear all of the time from women who "couldn't afford to practice with their pro and wanted to work with an amateur as well." The aim of this gimmick is to sell more lessons for the pro. When I added a note to the sites that I use that I was not interested in a pro/am tramp, the responses stopped.

When you compare the actual amount of usable knowledge transfered from an overpaid "expert" when compared to that from many more moderately priced instructors, the exhorbitant cost cannot be justified.

There are many first-class instructors who keep their fees low, rightly confident in the knowledge that they will always have plenty of business. When Terence was in Atlanta (and I consider him to be a top quality teacher in spite of his occasional stuffiness), he offered rates that could be fairly described as a bargain.

Time is always a more important investment for any dance couple than money.



jj