Unfortunately true.. but, water finds its own level .

"It also seems that anyone can "Put a shingle out", and call them self a dance teacher. Thus leaving a layperson to find it out the hard way!!"

Yes, but someone can also study for a certification exam and pass it without necessarily being a very useful teacher.

Your best bet is to look at someone's existing students. Is their dancing functional and elegant in the context of the circumstances, or difficult and forced?

Goodness! Take a chill pill, T-2. I just meant someone, could very easily take advantage of people. I did NOT in any way mean to demean or down play the career of dancing!!!! I could say that I understand the years of dedication, training involved but I have can't because I have not done it!!!! I just did not realize that teaching dance was so unregulated. I assumed that if someone had a studio, that they would be certified,they could teach dance correctly, or at least hire someone who could! The state would come shut them down, and protect the public!! I did not realize that a person could get drunk, learn to dance in a bar could open a studio, and call themselves a dance instructor.
Do NOT be confused, I know there are professional teachers who have dedicated there whole lives to learning and sharing the art of dance, and then there are the "self proclaimed" teachers.
Most people are like me! Watch DWTS, think that it would be fun to dance. So, they go looking for a place to learn, and assume they are paying/receiving quality instruction, when they are actually receiving the"drunken bar-room buddy"lesson.
I personally like technique driven teaching. We have been dancing 2 years, and still once a week have a 2 hour lesson on basic techniques, and still learning new things everytime!!
So, please do Not misunderstand, my question? I got my answer-No Certifcation-really says quality! It is kind of a buyer beware situation!! Sorry to offend,T-2! Smooches Darling! ScottyBoyDoll

That may be a pragmatic approach, but it doesnt always tell the full story.

As any teacher knows, each class will have varying degrees of accomplishment given the same time and material.

So.. do we judge the " unknown " quality on its intial appearance ?.

I believe one has to actually see, and listen to someone teach.. does it then meet your expectations ? .


And.. to SBD.. I did not take any offence at your remarks.. and I wrote what I did, to illuminate the path that thousands of teachers have taken and to inform other readers of these posts.

It does bare repeating.. a Qualif. does NOT guarantee excellence in teaching. Those skills have to be honed .

"That may be a pragmatic approach, but it doesnt always tell the full story.

As any teacher knows, each class will have varying degrees of accomplishment given the same time and material."

I was not really meaning to suggest looking at group classes, but looking at a teacher's long term private students, to see if they have built a real capability or the basic act of dancing itself remains a struggle.

There are a number of teachers out there who by reputation, certification, and devotion of their students would be thought to be rather good, but when you actually watch their students try to dance, you realize that despite all the hard work by the students, the teacher has not been unable to communicate any of the key ideas that make dancing practical.

"I believe one has to actually see, and listen to someone teach.. does it then meet your expectations ? ."

If you already know a lot about the subject, you can do this. But what happens in some of these problem cases is that you get a great presentation, but a presentation that never manages to cover the issues that prevent the students from making progress. The teacher looks like an expert - but they accomplish nothing. You have to be something of an expert yourself to see that their organized presentation doesn't really have useful content.

But anyone can determine it by seeing that their students continue to struggle, while other teacher's students progress.

The one major factor that is invariably left out in these quests?

Compatabilty and personality .

I know of several world class pros, ones that really devolped championship quality, that were deemed extremely difficult to work with .

The choice of a teacher ( dependant on needs, finances, etc ) is quite often limited to the surroundings in which one lives. The usual answer is " well, coaching with visitors etc. ", to my mind, that , in many cases, is not good value at the level of many students current level.
And yes, of course, one can get info. which may be appropriate to the moment, but its not the long term solution .

I happened to coach 2 ( later to become champions ) teachers in their early careers. My advice to both was this... you need to make regular visits to the UK and get the exposure you need .

Times have changed, but still the majority of what is considered " world " class are still based in Europe .

Lastly.. your observation that " their students struggle etc. ".. did you ever stop to think it might NOT be the teachers fault ?( Ive taught couples who never corrected their "faults " and subsequent teachers.. same problem )

I agree with Terence that simply observing an instructor's students offers little in the way of guidance.

The primary determinant of a couple's "success" is the couple, not the instructor.

One point needs to be made. Instructing a couple and instructing one person are two entirely different matters. If you're part of an amateur couple then you need to find a professional who teaches couples and avoid those primarily involved in pro/am.



jj

"Lastly.. your observation that " their students struggle etc. ".. did you ever stop to think it might NOT be the teachers fault ?( Ive taught couples who never corrected their "faults " and subsequent teachers.. same problem )"

After observing long enough I came to realize that the problem is specifically with the teachers and not with the students.

- The students failing with these teachers are very similar to those succeeding with other teachers

- The students do not lack in capability, determination, or effort. They are merely not getting the critical information needed to succeed. Someone more qualified watching these lessons will eventually notice that the teachers consistently miss the underlying issues and present instead the irrelevant.

- The teachers make many of the same inhibiting mistakes that their students do when they attempt to demonstrate.

- The only students you ever see with these teachers who have experienced any real success or display any real capability are those who can regularly be seen getting their primary training from other sources.

From a student's perspective, the only one of these factors that can be seen - the only one that can be judged without teacher level knowledge of one's own - is the lack of success of the teachers' students.

Your assertions may have some relevance to students dancing with their pro/am partners but have no validity whatsoever in regard to amateur couples.

For the most part, however, your claims are more expressions of your own peculiar dance prejudices than they are expert observations.

I have watched instructors whom I know to be competent work for years with couples who just never really improved. Yet these same instructors also taught other couples who improved dramatically in relatively short time frames.

Perhaps you're familiar with the old saying (Japanese in origin, I believe) that when the student is ready then the teacher will appear.



jj

"Your assertions may have some relevance to students dancing with their pro/am partners but have no validity whatsoever in regard to amateur couples."

Your unfounded assumption is wrong.

The majority of the situations I was writing about were teacher failures in training amateur couples.

"For the most part, however, your claims are more expressions of your own peculiar dance prejudices than they are expert observations."

If you consider the goal of dancing fluidly rather struggling against a partner to be a prejudice, then I'd think you've applied the word "peculiar" to the wrong party.

"I have watched instructors whom I know to be competent work for years with couples who just never really improved. Yet these same instructors also taught other couples who improved dramatically in relatively short time frames."

That's a different type of instructor than I am talking about.

I'm talking about the ones who have the resume but do not have any successful students, excepting only those who take most of their lessons from a different coach.