While attending the NJ regional, I watched the International Standard Novice to try to understand.

Most I noitced were dancing silver and gold steps. In Quickstep I did notice some danging runs and "hops" which would not be allowed in silver or gold, but that was it.

Can anyone help me to understand what noivce actaully is? I dance silver and gold, and have always hesitated to register at this level, as I was not sure I had yet reached this level. It seemed that I would of been qualififed to dance this level at the NJ regional.

Confused...

In USA Dance (USABDA), Novice is a proficiency level that is considered to be alongside of the syllabus levels. In fact, the USA Dance (USABDA) rules say that if you are eligible to compete in syllabus, then you are also eligible to compete in Novice.

Unlike syllabus events, Novice does not restrict dancers as to steps used or as to costuming.

Novice came about a number of years ago (10? 12?) when a bunch of USABDA rules were established. At that time on the West Coast, competitions offered Closed Syllabus (all syllabus levels lumped together), Novice (any steps allowed), Pre-Championship, and Championship events. On the East Coast, however, there were the three separate syllabus levels, and then Pre-Championship and Championship. In order to reconcile these differences, Novice was established as I described it at the beginning of this post.

So, if you dance Bronze & Silver, you can dance Novice. If you dance Silver & Gold, you can dance Novice. If you dance Gold & Pre-Champ, you can dance Novice. Once you "point out" of Gold, though, you can no longer dance Novice.

Hope this helps!!

No, you can still dance novice if you have pointed out of gold. But if you accumulat points dancing in pre-champ, that could place you out of both gold and novice.

Please tell me what information you base your interpretation on, because you are expressing what I have been told is a common misconception. I'm going by what is in rule 4.5.3.1, rule 4.5.4.6.b, and what my region's DanceSport Council Representative told me.

Rule 4.5.3.1 shows that Novice is alongside Bronze/Silver/Gold. The only way you could do Novice if you had pointed out of Gold would be if Novice was between Gold and Pre-Championship, and it's not according to the diagram in the rule book.

Rule 4.5.4.6.b says "If one or both of the proficiency levels is a Syllabus level, then a couple may also enter the Novice level." So, if you've pointed out of Gold, then you aren't in a Syllabus level, and so you therefore can't do Novice.

Since I help to organize and run a few USA Dance competitions per year, I ran these interpretations by my Region's DanceSport Committee member to check my reasoning, and he told me I was correct. If I am wrong, it is because he is wrong and because the rules are not yet clear enough, and we need to get this straightend out so that the rules are applied consistently everywhere.

Read the rule in it's entirity:

4.5.4.6. An Athlete may compete in any proficiency classification level higher than the minimum
proficiency level for which he or she is eligible, except that:
a) He or she may not compete with the same partner in more than two consecutive proficiency
level classifications in a particular style and age classification which are actually held at
any given competition.
b) If one or both of the proficiency levels is a Syllabus level, then a couple may also enter the
Novice level.

4.5.4.7. Athletes may only compete in a particular proficiency classification or sub-classification in a
particular style and age group until they have acquired five (5) proficiency points...etc

The "if one or both of the levels is novice" thing is a restriction on an allowance for dancing up and dancing multiple levels - you should still be able to dance novice on it's own, because it is a proficiency level itself.

I agree with you on your final point. You can definitely dance Novice without dancing in a syllabus level so long as you are still eligible point-wise. What I am disagreeing with is your assertion that if you pointed out of Gold you could still dance Novice.

My claim is that you can dance Novice so long as you haven't pointed out of Novice OR so long as you haven't pointed out of Gold. If you've pointed out of Novice you can't do Gold any more, and if you've pointed out of Gold you can't do Novice any more.

4.5.4.7 Determines your primary elgibility, and for that gold points do not affeect novice and novice points do not affect gold, because there is no rule by which novice points transfer to syllabus or gold points transer to novice, in the way there is an explicit rule about how points transfer between all of the other categories.

4.5.4.6 Simply determines what additional levels you may optionally dance.

Realistically no one will place out of either novice or gold by dancing in category, except by winning one of them at Nationals. Most people who place out do so via pre-champ results which descend to both gold and novice.

I'm going to have to go to my DanceSport Council representative and ask again, because while what you say makes sense, it contradicts what I have been told. See, I'm in the position of dancing both Gold and Novice these days, and I was warned that most people misinterpret this little subset of rules and that if I point out of Gold that I can't do Novice any more either, even if I didn't earn any points in Novice.

When I get a final answer I'll be sure to let you know -- and also will say who it came from. And if you get a final answer, please post it here along with who it came from. That way if our official sources disagree, we can have them fight it out and put a clarification in the rules.

Actually Laura,
This does help very much and was quite in line with what I saw this week-end. Your comment that novice is danced "alongside" with Syllabus is exactly what I saw. I saw some couples dancing silver, not gold, but then novice.

This is our third USABDA regional event, and although I dont study the rules or have expertise as both poster do, I do closly read the rules on the entry forms before I register.....

The Southeast Regional entry forms(last October) specifically stated that you could dance one level below your level, and IN ADDITION dance at the novice level...Of course for me that just added to my confusion!!

Your post is quite helpful to me, and as long as the rules dont change again, will dance novice in the future.... We have just begun to dance gold and it will be quite some time before we will point out in gold. I only wish this was a concern of mine!!!.

Dancing just Silver and Novice is allowed. So is dancing just Bronze and Novice, or just Gold and Novice. I was just outlining the *maximum* number of events a dancer at each minimum syllabus level could enter in my previous list.

It's a good idea to read the actual rule book whenever a new one becomes current because sometimes it's not practical to include every single rule in the registration materials. My group usually summarizes the most often confused or often violated rules, but we also have started putting in a statement that these aren't all the rules and that competitors are responsible for knowing all the rules even if they aren't in the registration packet.

Now, as for South East Regionals, what you said makes NO SENSE at all. Dancers are explicitly not allowed to dance below their lowest eligible proficiency level as per rule 4.5.4.5, "An Athlete shall NOT compete in any classification below the minimum proficiency level for which he or she is eligible." This means that if you have pointed out of Bronze, then your minimum proficiency level is Silver. Therefore, you can't enter Bronze-level events any more. If what you say about South East Regionals is true, then they were running their USA Dance sanctioned competition in violation of USA DanceSport rules.

If you want to dance Novice you should start doing it now, because if you point out of Gold you will no longer be eligible to dance Novice either.

And as for the rules not changing again...don't count on it. The rules are revised and changed every couple of years it seems.