Hi,

- Can anybody show me the method to count beat for all the dances ?

- For the dance like Tango (1,2,3,4 and 5,6,7,8 beat counts) : How to recognize which part of music belong to 1-2-3-4 or 5-6-7-8)

Thanks

Hytran. Why did you pick a difficult one like Tango for an explanation. Some Tangos are being recorded at 2/4 and some at 4/4 bars per minute. Why is this. It is because music is not only recorded for dancers. The producers have to please ,and hope to sell to a none dancing section of the public as well as the dancers. A 2/4 tempo is not as popular as a 4/4. A 4/4 can have a vocalist,2/4 is much harder to sing too.
According to the rule book 2/4 is the one laid down for the Tango but very often a 4/4 slips through. Either way you should be able to pick the one two one two beat of the 2/4. If you feel that the music is saying 1234 you will find that the first beat is heavy the second lighter.The third not as heavy as one, but heavier than two, fourth beat light. Now for the difficult part.If you do to 4/4 timing two walks, a Progressive side step. a walk into a Link, you are now out of rhhythm. The same steps in a 2/4 you are not out of rhythm The way to coupe with this is to ignore the 2/4 and count everything in fours with your choreography adjusted.We would not want to do the first step of a reverse turn on 34. A simpler way of explaining this to the uninformed is with a 4/4 beat do a Four Step starting on beat one. 1234. then a Closed Promenade. You are now out of phrase. So your choreography needs to be adjusted. Believe me , you never know which of the two tempos you are likely to strike. I sometimes wonder whether some of the judges know any of the above. Foxtrot is another tale.

Hi,

Thank you.

- It's good to have your insight into Tango counting beat.

- Can you continue with Foxtrot and then with Rumba, Chachacha, Salsa (Mambo), Single-step swing, Triple-step swing, Tap Hustle, Samba ?

- I usually hear people counting 5-6-7-8 before starting the first step.

Thanks,

Hytran.. Better to take one at time.
Those who count 5678 have already picked the beat of 1234 and just continue 5678. The preperation step is on 7 8. Some use the 8th beat for the preperation step, they like the faster entry. The best way to understand is to play a Foxtrot at home, and after the 4 bar intro start counting in eights. You will be able to pick the end of one phrase and the beginning of the next phrase, which of course is 1. Count this way ,it isn't hard to do. 1234. 2234. 3234 4234 and so on to eight, then start again. As as in the Tango, it is posible in the Foxtrot to be in time, but out of rhythm. That is 3412 instead of 1234. Years ago they were not as fussy as today otherwise they would never have written a book which gives the timing for a Change of Direction as slow slow slow as well has a Drag Hesitation as in a Natural turn. Both would have you stepping off on the wrong beat of 12 with the first of the Feather Step on 34. To go to Samba. Pick up the intro and then count 1a2 2a2
3a2 4a2 all the way to eight. Usually if you do four bars of BotoFogos starting on your left foot and two bars each side of Voltas you would at the end not feel right if your phrasing is out. Good luck with this.

Sorry , a mistake in the second line 4/4 beats per minute should read 4/4 beats per bar. For those who are not sure about the music a Waltz is 3/4 which is 3 beats per bar of music. Most dance music is in what is known as Eight bar phrasing and should be easy to pick up on the first bar of a new phrase. Latin is the same and in the Samba is very important.

***Years ago they were not as fussy as today otherwise they would never have written a book which gives the timing for a Change of Direction as slow slow slow as well has a Drag Hesitation as in a Natural turn. Both would have you stepping off on the wrong beat of 12 with the first of the Feather Step on 34.***
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Hi All,
The 4/4 time of the Slow Foxtrot has an accent on beats one and three (although the first beat is stronger). So, what is wrong with starting the first step of a figure on beat three? The English style of ballroom dancing is not Modern Sequence nor New Vogue, which, I believe, is danced in 16 or 32 bar phrases. I believe you where referring to a Heel Pull when you wrote ‘Drag Hesitation'.

lluv2dance. You'r dead right with the heel pull. With a beginner I have always found it easier to say drag the foot and then through. About the timing. I take it that the eight bar phrased music remains constant. That todays teachers count every thing in eights. For instance Feather Step, Reverse Turn,Three Step and then into a Natural Movement on one. Now I believe we are half way through a eight bar sequence. By starting on 3412, to me would feel extremely uncomfortable and not at all musical. Another way to look at it is to go to the Waltz. Spin Turn. 456 of a Reverse. Revese Turn .Whisk. Synacpated Chasse. You would now be starting a Natural Movement on 823 and not 123. That's why you should start with a Change Step. If not hold it for one bar and then start. Remembering we don't want to be doing a softer part of the movement with the orchestra going for it. So Blackpool is finished for another year. I'm waiting for the results of the Professiona Modern and more importantly how my teachers faired in it. They defended their position in the Rising Stars sucessfully, which is quite an accomplishment in itself. Going back to the other. I dont see how anybody at the end of a four bar introduction would start on the wrong beat. Unless they did a preparatory step on 12 and started the Feather on 34 which is absolutely wrong.

Perhaps the figures with an odd number of slows are meant to be used in pairs, to create a whole with an even number.

hytran,

As a person who taught music in elementary school I know just how valuable Kodaly or Orff Counting Methods can be for people/dancers learning to find the beat in music.

It's important for the dancer to "feel" the music rather than count it, especially when you consider a strong starting step can occur on 3 as well as 1 in 4/4 music.

And to add to the discussion above a march usually in 4/4 can be in other figures as well, e.g. Paso Doble is a march in 2 rather than 4. Waltzes, often counted in 3 by dance teachers are often in 6.

The important thing is to learn to recognize the strong or down beat. One method is to turn down the treble in your music while turning up the bass. Listen for the bass and/or bass drums. You should begin to hear a ONE, two, three, four, ONE, two, three, four in tango, foxtrot, etc. or ONE, two, three, etc. in waltzes.

The ONE is slightly stronger.

Add the Kodaly or Orff method and it should help you build an internalized feel for the music. e.g.

Instead of counting:

ONE, two, three, four

You'll count or clap or walk to:

TAH, ta, ta, ta

etc.

Here's a like to a Kodaly rhythmic book:

http://fixeddo.com/rhythmicsr.html

Better yet find out if there's a community program in Orff/Kodaly in your neighbourhood.

OB

Operabob. Which ever way there is in learning how to , and how to pick the beats in an eight bar sequence, a person must listen to the music and what is it saying. On the back of some disk cases you will see the words 4/64. This means a 4 bar intoduction followed by 64 bars of music. 8 x 8 = 64. It is a good idea to be able to count this, and only practise makes perfect. To quote John Wood. If we get stopped by another couple it should be possible to get back into rythm. Failing that we will look the same as all the other couples on the floor, on time but out of rhythm. For those interested the Samba is the dance that shows up the most if a couple get out of phrase.