How different in technique is in the Waltz 4. 5. 6. of a Spin Turn for the lady, to the first three of a the man's Natural. I know the lady brushes and the man closes but the technique within thoes steps.

Don. I can think of two differances there may be more. (One)there is no sway as the man pivots. (Two) The lady has a srong upward swing of the body in order to dance around the man,this I think is why she has a brush.

There's officially no sway on step 1/4 of the natural either. A difference in sway would only come about on step 2/5.

And whoever is going forwards most certainly has a strong upwards swing of the body on step 2/5 of the natural, as well as the spin turn!

There are real differences between the steps. But there are useful similarities, too.

The man does sway on the first three steps of the natural. The latest technque is that the the lady never sways or has a slight sway, this is fine if the man is six feet or more and weighs forty to eighty pounds heavier and his partner is several inches shorter. But my partner is the same hight and ten pouds heavier ,so her help in swaying is impotant to me, not only that, when she dances with our coach I feel the sway he has imparted on to her when we dance right afterwards, so to say that the lady does not sway or is minimal. (Geoffrey Hearn. A technique of Advanceed Standard Ballroom Figures 2004) is questionable ?

Nobody sways, but if you swing you have sway. When to do this depends far more upon what kind of action you are dancing than what role you are dancing - man's forwards actions are closer to lady's forwards actions than they are to man's backward actions.

Nobody has sway on the first step of either half of a natural turn or either half of a natural spin turn - step 1 or step 4. Sway develops on step 2 and step 5 of the natural as a result of swing. Officially it does not develop on step 5 of the spin turn... but practically?

Not true ,you swing into the double reverse turn and there is no sway. Sway can be the end result of swing but not always, anyway I did not say you sway on one ,I said you sway on the natural turn but not on the pivot in the spin turn. Swing is not always up. We swing our sides in the reverse turn of the v.waltz without sway. We also swing our sides in the three step with only the hint of a sway.

There is no swing in the DRS.

The term swing applies to rotation on a curved path about a fixed point. In a normal waltz turn, we have swing in the vertical plane, which combined with CBM rotation produces sidesway.

It might be tempting to argue that CBM is swing in the horizontal plane, however this is not the case. When done properly, a movement with CBM is not a curve around a fixed point, but rather a rotation superimposed on a straight-line movement, without maintaining a constant radius from any fixed point. The reason is simple - to produce a curved path, you must have a force pulling you towards the fixed point. In the vertical plane, this is your feet pushing you up from the floor, but in the horizontal plane there is nothing comparable to work off - except your partner, and you don't want to do that!

You said " if you have swing you have sway" I said ,not so. Example. the three step in the foxtrot. Going into the double reverse spin from a feather or a back lock you have a left side lead that is the start of cbm that flows into swing, you swing into the DRs. The double reverse spin is not turned on a fixed point but for the man on two steps and for the lady over three steps. A batter swings his club on a horizontal plane, if he is right handed he will do this with a left side lead. Victor Veyrasset in his slow fox video demonstrates the three swings (a) the Rotational swing,although his says around a fixed point as he moves his weight from the back foot to the front foot this is not a fixed point and as we now dance the natural turn in a more forward direction than we use to, it is no longer danced around a fixed point. The other two swings he mentions are the Pendulum and the Metronomic. We learn from discusion.

You do know that there's sway in the three step, right?

It's not hugely pronounced, in part because with the rise delayed and extra step and only slight CBM it won't develop that far. But there's sufficient hint of it to indicate that the technique is self-consistent.

Baseball bat - that's an object swinging around a fixed point somewhere in the vicinity of your body (actually, the bat and your center of mass both swing around a fixed point, at different radii). This is a perfect example of what you don't want to do with your partner - but follows a curve, partner goes straight, because you are holding the bat so much more firmly than the light touch you want to give your partner.

Well yes Annon ,as I said earlier,just a hint of a sway . Thank you for all your impute. I am go camping for three weeks so I say to all . Have a great summer, and when I get back I will find some more challanging questions for you to answer . The more we understand the better chance we have of putting it into practice, up to a point, but there is no substitute for a good teacher if you can afford it. P.S. The batter moves into the ball from his back foot to his front foot,so it is still not a fixed point.Ha.Ha Doug