| Suomynone mentioned that the R&F in the book is only footwork and nothing to do with body elevation, this is unfortunate as what everyone sees is not the feet but the elevation and will then try to copy this elevation using the book as an example. We do not need an explanation for R&F of the feet we do it correctly any time we walk and run. It would make more sence if the book was to describe the R&F of the body  |
| John,
While some clarifying comments would be welcome, I think the component of rise and fall that is described is the important and non-obvious one in terms of deliberate action.
Ordinary walking does not have foot rise as seen in the swing dances. Instead, it has the kind of departing footwork seen on the flat connecting steps between some swing figures - the one between a feather and a three step, or between a natural figure and a quick open reverse, etc.
The up and down that is missing from the book is not really an action at all, but an incidental result of leg division. Since much less of this was used when the books were written than is common in today's more athletic dancing, it's not hard to justify this in the historical context. Today it would be worth mentioning it to avoid confusion, but it's still something that happens as an incidental result, not something you have any independent control over. |
| John. In our studio we are taught that on any step to the side we are on our two toes with the weight in the middle passing it to what will be the standing leg. Best explained on the 4th to 5th and 6th step of the Foxtrot Reverse Turn. For the man the footwork is THT to a T. then a TH on the 6th step. For the lady HT TH TH don't lower too quickly on the 5th step. It must blend in with the mans steps. It is surprising how many men and ladies come off a flat foot on step 4.The thing is now check all your steps which are simular whether the foot comes up behind or in front or just a foot close. Another to watch is steps 2 3 4 on the ladies Double Reverse Spin. It is worth taking a look at the technique book diagrams on this one. |
| "John. In our studio we are taught that on any step to the side we are on our two toes with the weight in the middle passing it to what will be the standing leg."
If there were true side steps, that would be the way to do them - but in classic ballroom, there is no use for such an action. All "side" steps are really diagonally forwards or diagonally back in their actual action, an assymetry which means you never reach such a weight equally in between toes position. There needs to be bias in favor of the moving foot, such that by the time your feet are apart, if you tried to stop you would fall onto the moving foot with no weight on the standing one. If stopping leaves you in between your feet with your weight divided, then you have failed to sufficiently propel your body from the standing foot. |
| Suomynona.Instead of my opinion and you your opinion, lets consult the book so that we can come onto common ground. If a change step is not a side step then what is. Yes it does say to the side and slightly forward . It could hardly be to the side and slightly back. Neither could it be dead square not if the body is moving forward. Have a look at the chart and see if you think it is not to the side. Lets go to the first three of a Natural Turn Waltz. RF forward turning body to the right.Long step to the side with left foot across the LOD. For those who have no book the Natural starts on the diagonal. but still is a step to the side. Your RF is not stuck to the floor. And if you read correctly at some point between one and two you are on your toes. The lady will also at that time be on her two toes.For the man a bit of pressure from the right toe will send the weight from one foot to the other. On a 4 5 and then 6 on the Reverse Turn Foxtrot I have no problem on the step to the side and slightly forward, exactly as it is in the technique book. I have no difficulty with pressure on my right toe moving the weight from one foot to the other in a sideway motion, delaying it if neccessary for the lady to move into position. I'll be the first to admit than untill this was explained to me in a lesson, for years I was coming off a flattish RF on step four. After all was revealed to me we began to apply the same technique to all simular steps, there are plenty. Another thing that is learnt through this is it teaches to get the ballance over the toes, an inch either way is not the way to go.  |
| "I have no difficulty with pressure on my right toe moving the weight from one foot to the other in a sideway motion, delaying it if neccessary for the lady to move into position."
You have not trouble doing this, but it's not something that is of any use in partner dancing. In partner dancing, we allow our body momentum to make the transition between our feet when they are apart - we never allow ourselves to be a in a symmetric position where we have a choice between which foot gets out weight. Similarly, we never take a purely sideways action - a key part of what makes the action work is the forward or backwards bias to the sideways. |
| "Lets go to the first three of a Natural Turn Waltz. RF forward turning body to the right.Long step to the side with left foot across the LOD. For those who have no book the Natural starts on the diagonal. but still is a step to the side. Your RF is not stuck to the floor. And if you read correctly at some point between one and two you are on your toes."
Please cite the specific passage that says the man is on two toes.
"The lady will also at that time be on her two toes."
I doubt you looked this up, because there's a passage that proves you contentino about the lady's toes wrong:
"No foot rise occurs when stepping back on the inside of most turns when the heel of the supporting foot will remain in ctonact with the floor until full weight is taken on to the next step." |
| Can i throw in a comment or two here. My ears always prick up when i see or hear "1-2-3 natural turn waltz". The technique book makes it clear that the foot rotates through 90degrees on step 1, and that step 2 is placed with the left foot at right angles to the line of dance. (i've checked it several times and it's crystal clear). However, this is not how most top dancers dance it. They dance second step with left foot as a forward step (not to the side) and the right, supporting, foot rotates only a little before the left foot plants on 2, and the left foot at planting has rotated by only about 1/8 of a turn. The quarter turn is completed as the weight transfers onto the left foot. Sinkinson demonstrates this perfectly in his teaching tape which, by the way, is excellent. The point of all this? the technique shouldn't be followed slavishly. It's an excellent basic starting point, but dancing develops. Also, you would be on both toes as the left foot plants, so i'm with anon on this. You have to release the heel otherwise the correct weight transfer is impossible. Suomy is right, i think, about the lady on the inside of the natural turn. |
| "Can i throw in a comment or two here. My ears always prick up when i see or hear "1-2-3 natural turn waltz". The technique book makes it clear that the foot rotates through 90degrees on step 1"
Completely incorrect. Wherever did you get that idea?
"and that step 2 is placed with the left foot at right angles to the line of dance."
Again, incorrect. The forward partner places step 2 is placed with the foot diag wall, then rotates it, perhaps until perpendicular to LOD, as the weight comes onto it. At this point their departing right foot will also rotate, staying essentially parallel to their left throughout the entire figure.
The backward partner may place step one turned in, but nowhere even remotely near 40 degrees. They then point step 2 down LOD and make now further turn of that foot. As the feet start to close, their left foot will rotate until parallel to their right, both pointing down LOD.
"(i've checked it several times and it's crystal clear). However, this is not how most top dancers dance it. They dance second step with left foot as a forward step (not to the side) and the right, supporting, foot rotates only a little before the left foot plants on 2, and the left foot at planting has rotated by only about 1/8 of a turn. The quarter turn is completed as the weight transfers onto the left foot. Sinkinson demonstrates this perfectly in his teaching tape which, by the way, is excellent. The point of all this? the technique shouldn't be followed slavishly. It's an excellent basic starting point, but dancing develops."
Actually your description of top dancers practice is remarkably close to what the written technique requests. What doesn't match is your misconception about the official technique.
"Also, you would be on both toes as the left foot plants, so i'm with anon on this. You have to release the heel otherwise the correct weight transfer is impossible."
You must release the heel before the left foot even passes the right - but you will never be in the position of having weight jointly supported by both toes. By the time your left foot passes your right, you must have already, irrevocably commited to departing your right foot, such that nothing you can do from this point would restore a stable balance with any weight in your right foot. |
| sorry, nowhere even remotely near 90 degrees. 40 degrees (a typo) would be about as much as you'd want, I prefer less |
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