We started to dance (ballroom) about 1 1/2 years ago. Because of our big difference in size (22 cm) taking hold is quite difficult for us. Now we have a question about the lady´s basic posture. Our dance teachers told us, that the lady should bring the right side of her body close to the man, while streching the left side diagonally backwards and to the left (away from the man). But when you look at other advanced couples, the position of the lady looks different. It seems as if the lady would bring her left side closer to her partner, while taking away the right side a little bit more. The link below confirms this impression, because it says that the lady rotates the blocks of her body to the right. So can you tell us, why our position to eachother is so different from what is said in the link? Do beginners start with our kind of posture? We think, that it would be very important for us, to have the right posture as soon as possible, because of our difference in size. In our case, the arms of the man are much longer than the lady´s arms and so it would be very important to build up a big frame.

http://www.psrg.lcs.mit.edu/~sheldon/dance/massabda2006/posturepoise.html

This is a tough one to fully describe with words, and even more difficult to get right without supervision. But I'll give you some ideas that might satisfy your curiosity, and leave it to a hands-on instructor to put it to use.

The lady needs to be aware of both her left and right sides, however, each has a different "role". The left side is picked up and projected forward internally, whereas the right side is picked up to the man.

To get the feeling of the internal pick-up of the left side, sit in a chair to immobilize the lower half of your body. With your fingertips on your sternum and elbows stretched outward, rotate your top to the left, then return to neutral, then rotate to the right, then return to neutral.

While twisting to one side or the other, take the forehead in the opposite direction. For example, when the sternum is rotated to the right, the left side of your back is picked up and forward, which gives your head the support it needs to stretch leftward and backward. You can work on stretching this position by keeping the fingers of just the right hand on your sternum whil placing the fingers of your left hand on your forehead, and pulling them in opposite directions. (Of course, you will need to switch hands when rotating to the opposite side).

The twist to the right (head left) represents closed position, as well as outside partner on right. The twist to the left (lead right) represents promenade position, as well as outside partner on left.

Remember, however, that the forward projection of your left side is an internal position. That is to say, it is entirely a matter of how the parts of your body are positioned in relationship to each other, not to anything outside of the body (such as a partner). You could, for example, have your back to the man and still have your left side picked up and projected forward within your own body. In other words, how you relate to the man does not need to affect how you position yourself internally.

This is an important distinction, because most lady students who first learn how to project the left side forward tend to do so with the body as a whole, literally rotating around the man. This takes the lady's right side away from the man, diminishing the most crucial point of contact. This might be your teacher's complaint.

Once you've established your internal position, then your job while walking into position with the man is to give him your right side. If you have a tendencey to "go around the corner", as it were, then you need to take the position of your body as a whole and turn it slightly to the left, giving him your right side. Within your body, your left side will still be picked up, but your right side will now be connected to the man.

I hope this explanation makes sense. As I said, it's difficult to put into words without any visual aid. But perhaps I've at least answered your question as to how both sides play into the lady's position. Throughout your dance career, sometimes teachers will pick on your left side, and other times your right. Which side they pick on depends on which is lacking -- The internal (projection and pick up of left side) or the external (pick up and connection of right side/rib to man).

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson
www.ballroomdancers.com

Readers will, I trust, note that the above emphasis on the forward left side being an internal position rather than one of the full body amounts to a description of a TWIST or rotatinoal stretch within the body. Not to any extreme of course, but it is there, and is important.

And I thought it was quite well explained, too. Though of course it is not exactly easy to communicate how the lady's left side can be strongly forward, while also being back to fill out the frame.

The word Twist was sitting in a chair as an excercise. Sitting in a chair and turning allows no turning of the rest of the body with the turning of the upper body.Tell me if that is right or wrong.

That is correct. This is a rotary isolation which uses the muscles of the back around the spine. You will therefore be rotating your spine to some degree. For example, if you begin facing a wall, you might turn your sternum towards diagonal wall, while your knees and even your belly button remain pointing towards the wall.

Different people have different limits; I'd estimate mine to be about 30 degrees or slightly more to either direction. That's fairly normal.

I should point out that while dancing, one does not begin and then remain fixed in a fully extended position throughout. Not only is it strenuous, but it's quite stiff and lacking in artistic value.

If I were to mesaure the level of extension on a scale of 0 to 10 (10 being maximum and 0 being neutral with nose, sternum and belly button in vertical alignment), I would take dance position at "level 5", and spend most of the dance hovering between 5 and 10. The only time I go below 5 is when I'm transitioning to the other side (ie promenade or left outside shape), whereby I pass through 0 to get to the other side. I hope that makes sense.

Regards,
Jonathan

Is this 'twisting' the same as what is referred to as 'keeping your centre toward you partner'?

I hate to speculate on what someone might mean when speaking in the abstract, but I could see how "center toward partner" might be referring to the rotation of the top.

It's a little ambiguous or misleading because your "center" could be referring to any number of places, and when one isn't being specific about which center, I would assume they're speaking about the true center of mass, which is lower (Some teachers refer to this as "low center"). And this is not the center you want to "keep toward your partner", because it's what causes your whole body to rotate and therefore takes your right side away from the man. So I think it's important to specify "high center", or sternum.

Also, the word "toward" isn't quite specific enough, either. Is it "rotated toward", or perhaps "oriented toward"? If so, then the answer to your question is yes. But many teachers give the instruction to "keep your center picked up to your partner", which is really in reference to the right side (external) connection -- In which case the answer to your question is no. So if someone were to say to me, "Keep your center toward your partner", I would ask them to clarify with a little more detail.

Regards,
Jonathan

Jonathan. I find this very intesting and would like to go one further. If I do not stand in a correct position whether it be man or lady, if I didn't have a shirt on my back, across the shoulder blades would look distorted. For a lady especially, the not so young, would look ugly to say the least. A simple test is to do as you suggested.
Sitting in a chair and twisting to the left will cause the muscles around my back on my right side to gather up or shorten. Even though I am covered the weak back is still there. I am thinking more of the look of the lady whos back is not covered. I realize that if the lady extends the right arm it will uncrease those muscles. But then we have another story.
How straight is the right arm. Is it whatever it takes to get a nice looking back. That is the question.

Mmmm... not necessarily. That will only happen if you use the wrong muscles. It's easy to think you're rotating the entire top when in fact you're disengaging the shoulders, causing distortion. When only the long muscles closest to the spine are used, the entire top rotates as a unit. The trick, of course, is finding these muscles, and this generally requires individual instruction.

One of the reasons I'm very specific about the position of having the fingertips touching the solar plexus with the elbows outstretched is because it tends to reduce the possibility of isolated shoulder usage. It doesn't make it impossible for the truly determinied, but the average student responds well to this position, and can use it to learn to find the right muscles so that eventually they can do it correctly without this "crutch".

Also, don't forget that the dance position itself is not symmetrical. So if you're trying to achieve a perfectly symmetrical position within your own body, the end result will be distortion.

Imagine three straws of equal length, connected by a rubber band running through them. Straw #1 represents the line from your left elbow point to your left shoulder, straw #2 represents the line across from left to right shoulder, and straw #3 represents the line from right shoulder to right elbow point. If you begin with all 3 straws forming a straight line across, with the outermost points fixed, then twist the center straw to one side or the other, it will result in a zig-zag shape. This is what happens to students in dance position. The zig zag shape is what gives the topline a broken appearance.

For ladies in closed dance position, typically it's the right shoulder that protrudes slightly forward -- or as some might prefer to describe it, the left side drops down and back (Ultimately, however, it's the same thing). This is not an accident. It's not that all females tend to be lopsided. The problem is that the dance position is offset, which means that the hands and elbows when in dance position are actually shifted to the right of the body. So when you're facing straight forward with your hands and elbows in this position, you're actually distorting your topline. The way to fix it? Rotate your sternum to the right. Now it's positioned directly between the elbow points.

If the dance position was such that we were standing directly in front of our partner, then it would be much easier to maintain a balanced topline. But the offset position necessitates some rotation of the torso in order to maintain the balance. Without it, your topline becomes distorted.

This is so much easier to demonstrate than to write about. But I hope what I've written makes sense.

Regards,
Jonathan

" How straight is the right arm. Is it whatever it takes to get a nice looking back. That is the question."

Pretty much depends only on where the man's left hand is...

Since there are few other constraints on the man's left hand position (degree of bend in his elbow) it makes sense for him to adjust it until the lady's arm is at whatever degree of bend the couple feels to be correct. For me as for most championship dancers, that would be with a graceful, obtuse bend in her elbow - and a much sharper, perhaps even acute bend in his.