I have been waiting for somebody to point out that those who believe the body goes ahead of the foot which could possibly be done in a Foxtrot. But the Waltz never. You would tip over the top. This would leave us with two types of progression and i dont think that is the way it is supposed to be. One step forward in the Foxtrot is supposed to be the same as one step in the Waltz. If it was meant to be any other way the book would have said so.
Mr Anonymous what is your reasoning on this one.

"I have been waiting for somebody to point out that those who believe the body goes ahead of the foot which could possibly be done in a Foxtrot. But the Waltz never."

Oh, it's mostly certainly true at the start of each waltz figure too. The only exceptions would be things like a whisk, where your foot is already positioned ahead of the body.

"You would tip over the top."

Only if you failed to sustain the drive of your center. If you try to project your body and then stop, yes you will fall over. But if you project your body as part of a sustained drive, you will maintain your verticality just fine, even as you move through this UNBALANCED position.

"One step forward in the Foxtrot is supposed to be the same as one step in the Waltz."

Not true - the RISE IS DIFFERENT.

"If it was meant to be any other way the book would have said so."

It does say so. See the description of rise in waltz figures vs. in foxtrot figures. It's even commented on in the section where they talk about various types of rise, and about bracing of the legs in the foxtrot turns. You might at first think these differences are confined to the second step, but they aren't - they start within the first step.

You don't just start tipping over your feet. Movement always starts from your center which allows you to compress through the knees, rotate, and push off the standing leg, with the forward or backward leg just following the movement of the body. Then again, everything moves so quickly, its hard to seperate things when watching, but it's true. Think about if you did a natural turn in waltz and the lady just stuck her left then right leg back. If she doesn't start the movement from her center, her body will still be in the way of the man. The legs move right after, but the center is always moving first.

"You don't just start tipping over your feet. Movement always starts from your center which allows you to compress through the knees, rotate, and push off the standing leg, with the forward or backward leg just following the movement of the body. Then again, everything moves so quickly, its hard to seperate things when watching, but it's true. Think about if you did a natural turn in waltz and the lady just stuck her left then right leg back. If she doesn't start the movement from her center, her body will still be in the way of the man. The legs move right after, but the center is always moving first."

Very well said.

I suppose the one exception to this would be the way that in preparing to step backwards when lowering from foot closure, the free foot moves back slightly from the shin as the feet lower. But the "real" movement of the free foot in that situation commences, just as in the other (non-tango) dances and actions, only after the body begins to move, and only as a result of the body movement.

True- I was just talking about basic movement. But even then the foot isn't really out of the range of the body and there hasn't been much movement yet- more of a repositioning to perp for the next step.

But yes- body/center movement is key!! That's how the top couples can just sweep across the floor and never looked strained or like they're even trying.

I meant to say prep- lol!

And to add to that- this is why coaches say to stay over the foot.

Juice. Stay over the standing foot longer. Not over the foot. We in Australia have a style called New Vogue. In it there are many places where we do a solo turn. If you were to lead with your body you would not get past the first round in a competition. You must stand on the supporting foot and push off that foot.
Stay on the supporting foot longer and compress. Compression is the key. In this style there most certainly is the use of compression.

Well if that don't sound just like our old friend quickstep...

"If you were to lead with your body you would not get past the first round in a competition. You must stand on the supporting foot and push off that foot."

What nonsense. If you push off of a foot, it is rather obviously your BODY that is being pushed off of the foot. The result of this is that your body is no longer over the foot, but now beyond it.

"Stay on the supporting foot longer and compress. Compression is the key. In this style there most certainly is the use of compression."

There is some compression, yes, but you must not make the mistake of dropping all the way verticaly and only then starting to move. The movement actually begins during the lowering. At first it is vertical, but as the lowering progresses the path becomes increasingly horizontal. By the time you have reached the lowest point, the movement will actually (by definition, in fact) be purely horizontal.

I've been watching the Feather Step .The method now is as Len Scrivener wtote. The technique book is wrong. at the end of the second step we are on the way down. With the compression being used on all of the driving steps, and they really get low to the floor. The foot is way ahead of the body. Its possibly the only way it can be done from that position.I've been watching one of the top German couple Ferrugia and Koller. After driving off the supporting foot the knee of the supporting foot is about 9 to 12 inches from the floor, the moving thigh is at a right angle to the floor and that is low. The Quickstep for obvious reasons they dont get as low to the floor. Having said that the current Amateur Champion on occasions got pretty low in that dance. So we seem to have an aquired action and a lower down the ladder action which in many cases is none at all. Footnote. If you push off the back foot who in there right mind would think they are still over it. That is where the front leg comes into play otherwise you will fall over. The ball then the heel being moved by the standing leg.

"I've been watching the Feather Step"

Good. So I trust you now acknowledge the error of your previous posts, and are ready to recognize that:

1) Jonathan is lowering his right heel while his feet are still apart.

2) He is not falling backwards as he does so.

"The method now is as Len Scrivener wtote. The technique book is wrong. at the end of the second step we are on the way down."

As has been pointed out to your numerous aliases numerous times, the technique book does not actually contradict this, because the technique book does not address the part of the loss of altitude that is due to the division of the legs.

"Footnote. If you push off the back foot who in there right mind would think they are still over it. That is where the front leg comes into play otherwise you will fall over."

No! the front leg will not come into play until substantially after you have pushed off the back foot. The are still ON the back foot, even though you are no longer OVER it. Learn to understand the difference!